[{"Spotify":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/episode\/0H3Hr7HQCCANXydcQ8Hmk9?si=XbancL_5T8yvGGMt15_zoQ","Guests":[{"id":"recYCfM046diUfnFx","Image":[{"id":"attJO7t1Og8or0TXd","width":800,"height":747,"url":"https:\/\/v5.airtableusercontent.com\/v3\/u\/58\/58\/1793188800000\/EkhI64R5MYQZhgNtYTAjNw\/FFF6SlMhRewG4SlmZJmfuJhxqqQwlFk1NSh3CYFp7sG4CiNccRwCDvu4iF_KaOAZM4Gs4vLqpGd7DxcTjM-ab7m9t1GRQ4WtQXuLPPa1vwc2cI_dBSYd8jwvWyxkFbNV5g7BXpwUaK3w0d_2b-n1fNkGAysb1joR2ny7AqI27Ls\/48uaTd-RVw2e9oeQXSXw8lXSOHAA1ATuJmZy1OfYaN4","filename":"1779959259648.jpg","size":57676,"type":"image\/jpeg","thumbnails":{"small":{"url":"https:\/\/v5.airtableusercontent.com\/v3\/u\/58\/58\/1793188800000\/NtITb-Cr4W--xaTkHkJ1kg\/95gPBoE2NBwlEKNIjyLuV_3ecjUG0yc8ZM1p-kP72gpIHjH6LMkX2WS3BdY_FB_bov8d1eDJkdSPBs4MaZ09lwVWlL7oVgHmE-OKXcuUj9lNb8UEERVWGSlgqhbiMxbeOYnBTCf7VcWCO5YZXIVEXw\/3E1m9BgV-OoLEZQmxvjckCl_qQY3hmafcPM5-HgBgsc","width":38,"height":36},"large":{"url":"https:\/\/v5.airtableusercontent.com\/v3\/u\/58\/58\/1793188800000\/m_0F8L4zojajklF4BddzDA\/Xsnh_BcYEqz-joh3NxnSOYhkL0HbdF8SnvKgaJeEShEVU9jtyp-kAV4UIetndHjvWKRBNYwzEatrjz70kcsinnGiea_ztEYPnpUMXXZ5CZoEkPf69WG1SnWtkds-vPWURrQf7SJwFvMwIm1nxXQbBw\/L9aFNplTFevb740ER6LjBt5TVNEkgKHmDa2GU8zauCM","width":548,"height":512},"full":{"url":"https:\/\/v5.airtableusercontent.com\/v3\/u\/58\/58\/1793188800000\/uKUZj7QV9Q0FdkSkVd5QPg\/138c4nyhrL-kErkfELNVTk7oGwvt5QXZAjz98esW4jriXz2O7LMUHOpGtBOga0EwtbUIoIYonAj2bhpiHDV3s-yNuToT-plotTdWo1WoTuhE60E_M2IOiKb7Dh3o-cbgQMCpVHxKjHe2QvGTfR-36w\/a8XDnamGzczZwE68yLDyMt_dCdlUQXeylC9fd5MZy2c","width":800,"height":747}}}],"FullName":"Molly Haylett","Episodes 2":["recXjZAnfT1PjgpuE","recUYBpLLFt4nS6GB"],"Job":"Octopus Money"}],"Excerpt":"The two biggest things that come up in the middle of a divorce? The family home and pensions \u2013 and neither is as simple as it first looks.","Duration":14,"CustomSlug":"money-during-divorce-making-sense-of-it","Transcript":"Molly Haylett 0:00\n\nThe two biggest things often are the house, the marital home, and pensions, which can be completely different depending on exactly what somebody's got.\n\nKate Daly 0:12\n\nWelcome to the Divorce Podcast, where we explore relationship separation and parenting apart. If your relationship has ended or someone close to you is going through it, this podcast is for you. I'm Kate Daly, a relationship counsellor, divorce expert, and co-founder of amicable, the legal service helping couples navigate relationship change. Each episode looks at separation from a different angle, emotional, legal, or social, and with experts and special guests who share their own stories and tips to help people separate in a kinder, better way. This week I'm delighted to be welcoming back Molly Hailett, Chartered Financial Planner at Octopus Money, for part two of our three-part series on financial planning through divorce. This time we're looking at the middle part of the process, the practical money decisions that come up while things are still being worked through. If you missed part one, then go back and catch Molly's tips for getting ahead financially at the very start of a divorce. And stay tuned for part three, where we'll cover your finances once the divorce is finalised. This episode and our mini-series with Molly is created in partnership with Octopus Money. We discuss general information only and it doesn't constitute regulated financial advice. The tips we discuss are not personalized recommendations. So please do get in touch with an authorised advisor who knows your personal situation before making any financial decisions. Welcome back, Molly. Thank you for having me. Oh, it's lovely to see you again. Thank you for joining us. Now we talked about the beginning part of the process last time. This time it's all about the middle divorce part. So when you're right in the thick of it and you're looking at splitting money, property, all of the rest of it, what financial decisions tend to come up in this phase of the process, would you say?\n\nMolly Haylett 2:10\n\nYeah, great question. And you're right, you're right. We say you're right in the thick of it. So it's more the mechanics at this point, and actually, right, what do you have and how do we split it, but also how do we know exactly what we've got? I mean, the two biggest things often are the house, the marital home, and pensions, which can be completely different depending on exactly what somebody's got. So with the house, it's normally the first thing is okay, well, how do we get it reliably valued? For which there are a couple of options. So you can go down the kind of conveyancing route, a little bit more expensive, but for most people, they tend to get covered with two or three estate agents around and use a sort of relatively uh middle valuation from there. But then it's also okay, well, the mechanics again of how do you split the house? So are you going to sell and split? So sell the house and kind of split the proceeds, or you're going to keep the house and sell it in the future. Sometimes that's done for so the kids can stay where they are. But the house is generally the largest asset for most people. I find it's their primary concern.\n\nKate Daly 3:10\n\nAnd I guess most people have to do something with the house, don't they? So you're either transferring it to your partner for which you'll still need a valuation. I often think that's quite an interesting one because often there's a tension then, isn't there, when you're getting the house valued. For one of you, it's going to be much better to get a low valuation, and for the other one, it's going to be better to get the high valuation. So your point about getting three valuations from a solicitor and then kind of choosing the median point is a really good way of, you know, like you say, most people actually sort it out that way. So are you selling or are you transferring? And the point I think as well about if you're selling is remembering to put the selling fees in because when we're talking about splitting things from a legal perspective, we're always working on net values. So again, super important. So we're looking at net salaries, we're looking at the net proceeds of sales. So that means the sale, once you've taken off state agent fees, solicitor fees. And then when we're looking at affordability, we're also looking at things like mortgage capacities as well. So if you are, it's all very well to say we're gonna split the house 50-50 and we're each gonna go off with our 50%. But again, that can be deeply unfair if one of you's got a huge mortgage capacity and the other one, perhaps they've stayed at home to raise a family, doesn't have that mortgage capacity. So working in what mortgage capacity people have, I think is a really key one at this mid-process as well. And really getting in touch with mortgage broker, somebody who can tell you what your capacity is, because it's not just about what you can afford to borrow, it's how long you've got to pay it back. It's whether or not it's affordable on a month-to-month basis as well.\n\nMolly Haylett 4:57\n\nYeah, absolutely. Is this really important? But again, it's probably the one of the first things that comes up is and also where do you want to live and what are the property requirements for property in that area? Is in how much will I need to spend in order to stay kind of close to the schools or you know, whatever it might be that's keeping you in that particular area. So, yeah, more how speaking to somebody that they can help you understand your mortgage borrowing capacity, really, really important starting point there as well, alongside the decision around okay, actually, what are we going to do with the house?\n\nKate Daly 5:28\n\nBecause you're part of Octopus Money, aren't you? And you have mortgage people as part of your team, don't you? So if people are listening and they want some help, they can reach out to you for some financial help and support, but also you can put them in touch with your team who do mortgages too.\n\nMolly Haylett 5:45\n\nYeah, absolutely. Yeah, we have a lovely team that deals mortgages, and it's something that comes up an awful lot, is actually initially, what can I borrow? I don't need a mortgage today, but what can I borrow when I do? And it's very, very useful, particularly in coming into these discussions, feeling informed. Um, exactly like you've said, it's all well and good taking a percentage split that seems fair. But then if you can't have more borrowing or you're um at a point where maybe you're nearly retiring and therefore your your time to borrow is much less than somebody that's you know maybe got 20 years left until that point. So that there's lots of different factors that will feed into what you can borrow. Really, really important to know and understand that right from again, I would say. And then alongside that, you've got kind of everything else. So once the house is is ticked off the list or you've come to sit in there, you've got everything else. And the next biggest thing tends to be pensions as well. And that's when I find people really start to get into it and go, okay, these actually are really different, you know, from one to the next. And depending on exactly what type of scheme you've got, there could be totally different rules about when you can access that money or what it all means or what the sort of features are on an ongoing basis and how it pays out. And it's that's why it's so important to distinguish the difference between the two.\n\nKate Daly 7:01\n\nBecause we talked last time, didn't we, about the difference between a pension pound and a house pound. But actually, what I think you're saying here is there's a big difference, even within the asset class called pensions, about what each pension pound is worth. Because if you've got a defined benefit, a final salary scheme, if you are one of the lucky ones that still has one of those, those pounds are a different value to if you're in a defined contribution or you know, an easy, straightforward pension where you're just paying in into a fund. So actually, if you've got a combination of pensions and it might be one of you's got one type, one of you's got the others, or within the within yourself you might have several different types, then how on earth do you go about comparing all of them?\n\nMolly Haylett 7:51\n\nYeah, it it's it's not uh nowhere near as easy as the numbers on the tin, like we said, you could have a defined benefit um pension, which typically we'll see something like the NHS teachers' pension, though there are still private sector schemes around, and you've got a defined contribution pension. So for that, I tend to say to people, think about like your like your nest or your you know a Viva or something like that, like a standard and more standard scheme. \u00a3100,000 is really different, but not only is it worth different amounts, the way that you could access that money and when you can access it could be different as well, which is absolutely worth taking into consideration, particularly if there's an age gap or an income gap between you as well, um, or health, you know, is another one to think about. The way that we normally do this with our clients, um, and you'll know about this, Kate, actually, because the pension and divorce report, which is part of amicable as well, is that we we commission a report so you can get a completely unbiased report, which just takes out all of the emotion from either side and just gives pure numbers and it's it just looks at okay, what's everybody got? It values them appropriately. So an actuary will do the valuation where and that's essentially like a really, really clever specialist that knows exactly what it all means.\n\nKate Daly 9:02\n\nSo is that what's called a fair market value? So instead of just what the valuation is from your pension provider, somebody takes that information, looks through all the information in the pension scheme and works out. So it's kind of like doing algebra, isn't it, where you've got to translate into things that can actually be added together or divided or whatever. Yeah.\n\nMolly Haylett 9:20\n\nYes, exactly, because there's lots of benefits on a defined benefit scheme that can't be quantified necessarily in that CETV. So they all get taken into account, and then you'll get what we would say, exactly like you said, the fair market value. And it makes it much easier to compare. And then we can turn it into income. So instead of looking at um \u00a3100,000 versus \u00a3100,000 and somebody saying, by the way, they're different, you can translate it into income and say, Well, actually, this is what it means at 67. That's what your income system will look like at the moment.\n\nKate Daly 9:51\n\nRight. So if we were married, Molly, and we both had \u00a3100,000 in our pension, what it means to me as a slightly older lady might be very different to what it means to you as a younger person and so on and so forth. And it's not just age, is it? There's all sorts of factors that go into it. But just splitting on the numbers, even when you've got your fair market value, doesn't mean you're going to get the same income in retirement. So if you are, if you've got large pensions or you're closer to retirement, it makes a lot more sense by the sounds of it to get a pod report where you can actually have that information and make a decision. And it might not change your decision. You might still want to split in a certain way, but at least you're doing it in the full knowledge of what it actually means to both of you.\n\nMolly Haylett 10:37\n\nYeah, well, I'm 100%. And all the factors you've mentioned, but then also so many others, even if you've just got slightly different pension schemes, you could have defined benefit schemes. Um, and then you go a layer further and find out that your defined benefit scheme is actually different from my defined benefit scheme. So even as you get into there, they could have completely different sets of rules. And it takes out, I find, is that because you rented with a house, you know, what's better for one might be worse for the other. It takes out all of that emotion and it just gives the unbiased report and the numbers. And actually looking at it in the future, because you're dealing with investments predominantly, so the defined benefit schemes are kind of income-producing vehicles. So they're almost, they pay you a bit like a salary in the future. Whereas standard pensions, defined contribution schemes are a pot of money. And if markets do well, they might get bigger, if markets don't do well, it might get smaller, so it fluctuates a bit more in value as well. Um, but understanding the differences between those two pots, when they're going to pay out, kind of what flexibility you've got with them as well, and what else you've got available overall, which is why state pensions are so important. If one of you's got a full state pension, one of you hasn't, that will get taken into consideration as well. But it just gives you that pure numbers perspective to go, right? Okay, actually, when we are both at 67, which could be completely different, could be years apart from when we're both at that same age, but when we are at that same age, how can we both have the right and fair split of income? And that's what the report tells you, and they're really, really valuable.\n\nKate Daly 12:08\n\nBrilliant. So it sounds like in this middle stage of the divorce process, then there's a lot more nuance involved. So you've done your first stage, getting your basic information, and now you're looking at some of the more deep dive detail. And it feels like this stage is about really upskilling yourself in knowledge and what you might have missed. This is the bit where it feels like sometimes you don't know what you don't know. You're in danger of making decisions that look fair on the surface, but underneath might be holding hiding a sort of multitude of unfairness. So it feels like this is the point where you really do need somebody to help you and guide you through and get some expert advice on how it's fair to split the house, what how mortgage capacity factors in, what net values look like because they're different to gross values, and what different pensions are available and what the splits can do to your long-term and medium-term future. Brilliant. Thank you. That's a fabulous summary of the middle part of divorce. I'm looking forward to seeing you next time so we can decide and discuss what happens when you've actually done the deed, the divorce is over, and you're staring down the barrel of your new financial reality. So I'll catch up with you later for that conversation. Thanks, Molly. Bye. That's it for part two. Thanks, Molly. Next week we're covering money after your divorce is finalized. Find out how to get familiar with your new cash flow, sort out admin like your wills and pension beneficiaries, and start planning for your new financial reality. And of course, you can find me on LinkedIn and Instagram and hear about new podcast episodes by subscribing for updates and visiting thedivorsepodcast.com or find us on your favourite listening platform. We'd love to know how we can help further, so please share your questions on divorce separation or co parenting with us. They might just be a topic of a future episode.","VideoLink":"https:\/\/thedivorcepodcast.buzzsprout.com\/182833\/episodes\/19989624-in-brief-money-during-divorce-making-sense-of-it","Title":"In brief: money during divorce \u2013 making sense of it","EpisodeSlug":"money-during-divorce-making-sense-of-it","LastModifiedDate":"2026-10-21T09:33:39.000Z","CategorySlug":"finances","Category":"Finances","EpisodeUrl":"\/episode\/money-during-divorce-making-sense-of-it","CreatedOn":"2026-10-21","ReleaseDate":"2026-10-21T06:00:00.000Z","Content":"**In partnership with [Octopus Money](http:\/\/octopusmoney.com\/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=podcast&utm_content=MoneyDuringDivorce&utm_term=42fe00b7-bf62-4ef3-8d0f-80eece5db1aa)**\n\nWelcome back to our 3-part mini-series on The Divorce Podcast, on finance before, during and after divorce. This is part 2.\n\nThe two biggest things that come up in the middle of a divorce? The family home and pensions \u2013 and neither is as simple as it first looks.\n\nKate is joined again by Molly Haylett, Chartered Financial Planner at[ Octopus Money](http:\/\/octopusmoney.com\/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=podcast&utm_content=MoneyDuringDivorce&utm_term=42fe00b7-bf62-4ef3-8d0f-80eece5db1aa), to unpack the biggest financial decisions you\u2019ll face once you\u2019re in the thick of the process.\n\nWe talk about:\n\n- How to get a reliable valuation on the family home, and the difference between selling and transferring\n- Why mortgage capacity matters as much as the percentage split\n- The difference between defined benefit and defined contribution pensions, and why it matters\n- What a pension on divorce (POD) report is, and when it\u2019s worth getting one\n\nIf you missed part 1, go back and catch Molly\u2019s tips for getting organised at the start of the process. Stay tuned for part 3, where we cover rebuilding your finances once your divorce is finalised.\n\n_The discussions in this podcast, including the adviser's own experiences, are not personal recommendations. Please seek advice from an authorised adviser familiar with your circumstances before taking action. This podcast provides general information only and does not constitute regulated financial advice. [Octopus Money](http:\/\/octopusmoney.com\/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=podcast&utm_content=MoneyDuringDivorce&utm_term=42fe00b7-bf62-4ef3-8d0f-80eece5db1aa) is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. This content is intended for UK residents only and is based on UK regulation as of the date of recording._\n\n## About Octopus Money\n\n[Octopus Money](http:\/\/octopusmoney.com\/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=podcast&utm_content=MoneyDuringDivorce&utm_term=42fe00b7-bf62-4ef3-8d0f-80eece5db1aa) is on a mission to make investing and money advice accessible to all \u2013 because we believe everyone deserves to feel confident about their future. You can get in touch with them to find out more [on their website](http:\/\/octopusmoney.com\/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=podcast&utm_content=MoneyDuringDivorce&utm_term=42fe00b7-bf62-4ef3-8d0f-80eece5db1aa).\n## More divorce resources\n\n### **Ready to get clear on your finances?**\n\nBook a [free 15-minute consultation](https:\/\/meetings.amicable.io\/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep217_finance_during_divorce&utm_content=episode_description) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation.\n\n### **Want ongoing support through separation?**\n\nJoin [amicable space](https:\/\/amicable.space\/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep217_finance_during_divorce&utm_content=episode_description) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars and articles on finances and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https:\/\/amicable.space\/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep217_finance_during_divorce&utm_content=episode_description).\n\nKate\u2019s book [amicable divorce](https:\/\/amicable.io\/amicable-divorce-book?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep217_finance_during_divorce&utm_content=episode_description) includes a dedicated chapter on navigating finances during separation, including reaching financial agreements based on your real needs (not just 50\/50 splits) and guidance on commonly overlooked assets like pensions. [Find it on Amazon](https:\/\/www.amazon.co.uk\/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting\/dp\/180522610X) today.\n\n### **Got a question for a future episode?**\n\nShare your thoughts at [podcasts@amicable.co.uk](mailto:podcasts@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/amicable_world\/).\n","ApplePodcasts":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/gb\/podcast\/in-brief-money-during-divorce-making-sense-of-it\/id1403271644?i=1000797390843","CategoryUrl":"\/category\/finances","Featured":true,"YoutubeMusic":"https:\/\/music.youtube.com\/watch?v=_bylG0HR7zU&si=Nn19rtm7UcDhz_p7","EpisodeNumber":217,"id":"recUYBpLLFt4nS6GB"},{"Spotify":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/episode\/0hU7RYvSTFr2jodIZlfrOY?si=1p2wwMKMQ0yk1MrTgWZ3mw","Guests":[{"id":"recYCfM046diUfnFx","Image":[{"id":"attJO7t1Og8or0TXd","width":800,"height":747,"url":"https:\/\/v5.airtableusercontent.com\/v3\/u\/58\/58\/1793188800000\/EkhI64R5MYQZhgNtYTAjNw\/FFF6SlMhRewG4SlmZJmfuJhxqqQwlFk1NSh3CYFp7sG4CiNccRwCDvu4iF_KaOAZM4Gs4vLqpGd7DxcTjM-ab7m9t1GRQ4WtQXuLPPa1vwc2cI_dBSYd8jwvWyxkFbNV5g7BXpwUaK3w0d_2b-n1fNkGAysb1joR2ny7AqI27Ls\/48uaTd-RVw2e9oeQXSXw8lXSOHAA1ATuJmZy1OfYaN4","filename":"1779959259648.jpg","size":57676,"type":"image\/jpeg","thumbnails":{"small":{"url":"https:\/\/v5.airtableusercontent.com\/v3\/u\/58\/58\/1793188800000\/NtITb-Cr4W--xaTkHkJ1kg\/95gPBoE2NBwlEKNIjyLuV_3ecjUG0yc8ZM1p-kP72gpIHjH6LMkX2WS3BdY_FB_bov8d1eDJkdSPBs4MaZ09lwVWlL7oVgHmE-OKXcuUj9lNb8UEERVWGSlgqhbiMxbeOYnBTCf7VcWCO5YZXIVEXw\/3E1m9BgV-OoLEZQmxvjckCl_qQY3hmafcPM5-HgBgsc","width":38,"height":36},"large":{"url":"https:\/\/v5.airtableusercontent.com\/v3\/u\/58\/58\/1793188800000\/m_0F8L4zojajklF4BddzDA\/Xsnh_BcYEqz-joh3NxnSOYhkL0HbdF8SnvKgaJeEShEVU9jtyp-kAV4UIetndHjvWKRBNYwzEatrjz70kcsinnGiea_ztEYPnpUMXXZ5CZoEkPf69WG1SnWtkds-vPWURrQf7SJwFvMwIm1nxXQbBw\/L9aFNplTFevb740ER6LjBt5TVNEkgKHmDa2GU8zauCM","width":548,"height":512},"full":{"url":"https:\/\/v5.airtableusercontent.com\/v3\/u\/58\/58\/1793188800000\/uKUZj7QV9Q0FdkSkVd5QPg\/138c4nyhrL-kErkfELNVTk7oGwvt5QXZAjz98esW4jriXz2O7LMUHOpGtBOga0EwtbUIoIYonAj2bhpiHDV3s-yNuToT-plotTdWo1WoTuhE60E_M2IOiKb7Dh3o-cbgQMCpVHxKjHe2QvGTfR-36w\/a8XDnamGzczZwE68yLDyMt_dCdlUQXeylC9fd5MZy2c","width":800,"height":747}}}],"FullName":"Molly Haylett","Episodes 2":["recXjZAnfT1PjgpuE","recUYBpLLFt4nS6GB"],"Job":"Octopus Money"}],"Excerpt":"Before you can split anything fairly in a divorce, you need to know exactly what you've got \u2013 and not all pounds are equal, whether they're sitting in cash, property or a pension.","Duration":19,"CustomSlug":"money-before-divorce-getting-organised","Transcript":"Molly Haylett 0:00\n\nThe first thing is get it all out of your head and onto paper. I often say to people that before you can even think about what you're going to do in terms of how you might like to come to an agreement or splitting assets, the best way to side is just having a clear picture. Because when it's all in your head and you're not quite sure what it all means, it's really hard to actually then think ahead and get to a point where you can make decisions.\n\nKate Daly 0:27\n\nWelcome to The Divorce Podcast, where we explore relationship separation and parenting apart. If your relationship has ended or someone close to you is going through it, this podcast is for you. I'm Kate Daly, a relationship counsellor, divorce expert, and co-founder of amicable, a legal service helping couples navigate relationship change. Each episode looks at separation from a different angle, emotional, legal, or social, and with experts and special guests who share their own stories and tips to help people separate in a kinder, better way. This week I'm delighted to be joined by Molly Haylett, Chartered Financial Planner at Octopus Money. And she's going to share some tips on how to get ahead of the financial planning at the very start of the divorce process. Now, this is the first in our three-part series with Molly. So make sure you're following and catch up with the next two. The money tips for the middle of your divorce and after your divorce is finalized. This episode and our mini-series with Molly is created in partnership with Octopus Money. We discuss general information only and it doesn't constitute regulated financial advice. The tips we discuss are not personalised recommendations. So please do get in touch with an authorised advisor who knows your personal situation before making any financial decisions. Welcome Molly. Hello, thank you so much for having me. It's lovely to see you. Thank you for joining us. So, Molly, we're going to talk all things divorce and finances today. And I guess most people probably get that when you get divorced, it's not just a question of ending the legal marriage, but actually the bigger part of what most people worry about is how to split money and property. And so these decisions obviously can have a huge impact, not just on the immediate term, but your long-term future as well. So, given that, given that it's such a big opportunity and it shapes potentially the rest of your life, what should people start to think about when they're looking at divorce and thinking about how to divide up money and property?\n\nMolly Haylett 2:47\n\nThat's a really good question. Something that I'm asked an awful lot as well. And I often say to people that before you can even think about what you're going to do in terms of how you might like to come to an agreement or splitting assets, the best place to side is just having a clear picture. Because when it's all in your head and you're not quite sure what it all means, it's really hard to actually then think ahead and get to a point where you can make decisions and you're in that right frame of mind to think about decisions. So the first thing is get it all out of your head and onto paper and actually get clarity on exactly what you've what you've got. So what kind of pots are you looking at? Um everything that you know about yourself and what you've got. So things like what's coming in and what's going out. So that's the kind of income and what you're spending. But then also what have you got? So property, uh, you know, pensions, for example, any ISES, any cash accounts, you know, what do you have as well in terms of pots of money? And then what are your liabilities? So mortgages, debts, things like that. And then also what you think. So with with pensions in particular, quite lots of lots of people at the beginning don't really know exactly what they've got. They might get a statement that turns up every every year that they glance at, but or even some statements that have just gone missing as you, you know, moved house. So they'll know that they've got something from an old job somewhere else many years ago. But quite infrequently, do people know exactly what they've got and where it is? So I always say, do like a do a what do you think you've got as well? And then that gives you an idea of what you need to explore and look into a little bit as well. And then also, what don't you know? So, what do you need to find out? And that might be, you know, what your spouse has or things about your own financial picture that might be long forgotten. So, first step, just get clear on what's there.\n\nKate Daly 4:27\n\nSo it's kind of like without wanting to make it sound too big and scary, because there are lots of ways to do shortcuts which we can come on to, but you're basically saying a full financial audit of what you've got, what you've actually got, and what you think is missing.\n\nMolly Haylett 4:43\n\nYeah, absolutely. And that just brings the clarity. That's like one of the most difficult parts is there's all of these question marks and there's all of these terms that you're not quite sure on. So before you can even think about like what's going to happen with all of that, actually understanding like what do I have already? Where am I coming to this from? What's the baseline? Um, and you know, keep it simple, like grab a highlighter and sort of start to highlight and segment things. So, and I always say do it on paper, not online. And I that's kind of different for everyone, but I think getting it out of like writing it down and having it in front of you on paper, grab a highlighter, segment, you know, what counts as like income for now. So, like what's my income, my salary, you know, what's cash have I got, what's a pension, what belongs to me, what doesn't, you know, and then you it that will help by just setting the baseline to begin with.\n\nKate Daly 5:34\n\nAnd I think it's not just a good housekeeping thing to do, but when you actually move through the process of divorce, one of the things you have to do is what's called a full financial disclosure. So all of this basic build-up work is super helpful because it's going to make that next part of the official process that bit easier if you've already got that information to hand. And I think it's a super point you make because again, you know, my experience from talking to people day in, day out about this, very often you have these conversations around the ending of the relationship. And before you've almost even had the, I'm really sorry, I know this isn't necessarily what you want, but for me, this is over conversation. You're already jumping into what's going to happen with the house and who's getting what, and money and figures start getting banded around. And I just think that can be so unhelpful. So if you can just separate those things and like you say, just do a bit of prep work, just for yourself at this point, know what you've got, what's enjoyed names, make a list of what you think your partner's got so you can ask them about it at a later point, but just getting it all down on, as you say, on a piece of paper or a trusty XL spreadsheet, something like that will go a long way to being able to have more informed conversations. And I guess the questions ultimately that the formal process is trying to answer is where are you going to live? How much have you got to live on day to day? And what is your retirement plan? So if you think about it in those three buckets, then you can start to think about answering the questions that the court's going to want to see if you have a formal agreement between you that ends your financial responsibilities to each other. So that's super interesting. Thank you.\n\nMolly Haylett 7:18\n\nYeah, absolutely. And what you're saying, Kate, as well about the buckets is really important because it's so easy to, or tempting, I suppose, to just think about the immediate bucket. Where am I going to live? And all of that stuff that is vital and fundamental and really, really important. But also there's all of this other stuff, like you say, like the forward planning, retirement planning, and what does that look like? And it's quite difficult, I find, for people to be looking forwards to something like retirement, when the immediate, you know, what's going on in the immediate life is so big and so important. So again, that will that also helps with, I think, like the logical side of things. Okay, we've got this, this, and this. And then when, you know, once you've got that done, you can start thinking about okay, well, when does when does this become accessible? Because they'll all have different rules, and you know, we can start to break it down even more. And also, particularly from a cash flow perspective. So, understanding actually what am I spending? What do I need to do?\n\nKate Daly 8:12\n\nYeah, well, exactly. Sometimes that's the first time in forever people get the opportunity to do that, to actually sit down and look. And let's face it, none of us want to do that because I don't really want to be confronted with how much money I'm spending on various items that I'm not even going to list here. But do you know what I mean? It's quite quite confronting, isn't it, when you've actually got to look at what you spend. And then the thought of having to discuss that with somebody else and justify it just feels really uncomfortable. But like you say, I think the important thing here is getting it out of your head and stopping it being a worry and making it into a financial fact, that process is actually very reassuring. And yes, it's going to take some time, isn't it? But you've got to set some time aside at a weekend or an evening. You're going to give yourself a couple of hour block. You're going to do the first part of it as much as you can. Maybe that's going through bank statements. Banking apps now can help you with that all of the time, can't they? You can search stuff. You've got those little graphs they show you of how much, they're not always right, but they're a good starting point, aren't they? How much you're spending on food, how much you're spending on personal care and all of that kind of stuff. So you can use the apps and things to set sort that out. And just, I think just writing a long list of all the things you do spend money on, that in itself is useful because sometimes it's very easy just to say, oh, these are the essentials, it's the utilities, it's the mortgage, it's whatever. But it's all the other stuff that actually like I always think the thing that often gets missed is things like pension contributions. What am I putting into my pension? Or how much do I actually spend on you know my kids going to other people's birthday parties, and therefore it's a present and an activity every time, and all of that kind of. So all of those little things add up. So if you can make that big long list, as you say, what's coming in, what's going out, that's your income and outgoings, and then a list of what have we actually got? What's in my name, what's in your name, what's in joint names. And if you're both going away and doing that, you can then come together and compare notes. And if you do it in that compare notes kind of way, it obviously is going to feel a lot less harsh than somebody making demands about what they want from a particular asset.\n\nMolly Haylett 10:32\n\nSo yeah, absolutely. And I love the way that you described it about how it's we none of us really want to go and look at our spending. And absolutely everybody, everybody underestimates their spending because firstly we spend different amounts, you know, each month, but there's there's like the living cost, and then there's the life costs, like exactly like you said with kids' birthday parties, and you know, what are you doing for enjoyment as well? So you can kind of understand, well, what do I need as a baseline to live? But then what about all of the rest, which is life and hobbies and you know, things that you might like to do alongside that? So um the longer that you can track it over, the better an idea you get as to actually what what's realistic. But for me, it's very much that at the beginning, it's just about clarity. You use the word informed. How do you come to this from an informed position and like a good starting point of knowing where you are?\n\nKate Daly 11:24\n\nAnd you so you kind of you've said the important thing here is to get it down on paper. So that's the first tip, isn't it? Get it out, get it down on paper, start to segment it. How do you make sure that's accurate? So there's some information you're gonna have to write off for, isn't there? I think you mentioned before, which is always an interesting one. We all get pension statements, but what's on your pension statement isn't the number you need when you're looking at getting divorced. When you're getting divorced, you need something called a cash equivalent transfer value or a transfer value. And that means you have to ask for that information. So, what other information do you actually have to ask for, Molly?\n\nMolly Haylett 12:04\n\nYeah, well, that's the magic word, the the cash equivalent transfer value. Um, and actually that's really worth getting early if you can, as they can take a while to come through as well. So it's unlikely that you request something like that, getting it in three days, and you might, but often, particularly with certain schemes, and this is in relation to pensions, they can take a little while.\n\nKate Daly 12:25\n\nSo, yeah, some of the public sector ones, like teachers and NHS pensions, they can tell more than 12 weeks, can't they? So, your point before about getting this prep done early, even if you don't think you're gonna get divorced for a few months, getting that information early, asking for a CETV is super important because there's nothing worse, is there when all of a sudden the process has started, you're in it, you've got people helping you, asking you for information, and all of a sudden you've got to wait 12 weeks. Russing around how far's the teacher's pension scheme works out your CETV. I mean, it is frustrating. I've seen it happen so many times. So you're right, getting in early, making a list of what you haven't got and making sure that you ask for that stuff in advance feels really important.\n\nMolly Haylett 13:10\n\nDefinitely, yeah. And often pensions form like such a big like amount, like they're sometimes the same as a family home, or if not the next largest asset. So really, really important. I would also be gathering valuations on things like state pensions as well.\n\nKate Daly 13:24\n\nSo people often forget that, don't they? Yeah.\n\nMolly Haylett 13:27\n\nYeah. And super easy to check as well. You can just go online on the Gov website or just chuck it in Google, check state pension, gov, and then it will bring up the website and you can see what you're entitled to because not everybody is automatically entitled to a full state pension.\n\nKate Daly 13:40\n\nSo I'm particularly women, isn't it? So it's particularly women. We assume that everyone's got a full state pension, and sometimes that's not the case, and that can impact how pensions, private pensions need to be split to compensate for that.\n\nMolly Haylett 13:52\n\nAbsolutely. So understanding what you've got before you do nothing else is the most important starting point, I would say. And then I would also be gathering just an idea of what things are valued. And like you said, there's you want you're not going to get it 100% perfect, particularly with things like, you know, houses, pensions, they're going to move slightly in what they're worth, but having a ballpark figure and then saying with updating cash accounts, things like that, you've got apps. So that quite often this information is accessible now. The information that's a little bit you need sometimes requires a bit more digging is things like pensions or investments, depending on exactly what they are and that where they're held. And that would impact kind of how you find it. But again, you're looking for something like a valuation, which you can normally get online. But if you can't get it online, you will be able to get it by giving them a ring. So I would kind of start there, look online, I'll give them a call, but don't wait for the next statement to arrive because they can come annually, sometimes at all, like I say, for old addresses and you move and gradually the account sorts being linked to your address.\n\nKate Daly 14:56\n\nSo I just had one bizarrely come through to my new house because I moved house and I just had a pension that I completely forgotten I had. And they've managed somehow to track me down here, but in my old, my previous married name. So it was really bizarre. And I was like thinking, oh my goodness, you know, I had completely forgotten I'd got that for the last kind of 10 years or so. But yeah, that just came. So it is finding old pensions and that kind of thing. You do have to like mentally trawl through, don't you, all the jobs you've been in and think about whether you've had a pension in those jobs and whether or not there are other investments you might have made at that time. It's like you have to kind of reimagine your whole life back, don't you? To see what you were doing and where you were.\n\nMolly Haylett 15:39\n\nIt's so easy as well to lose pay. I I there the numbers, though I don't know the exact number of what it is today, but tens of billions. There is so much money in missing pensions. You just wouldn't believe how much is missing. It's crazy because people do they they just move on and forget about these pension parts. So being able to go back and look and find that is not easy, but it's made easier now because you can go on things like again, the Gov website's really, really useful starting point. You can go and look at your previous employers and kind of what pension providers they use, and that helps with finding a bit of a trail rather than just going in blindly thinking, where would that be?\n\nKate Daly 16:18\n\nAnd then what's in this early stage, because we're this first part is all about the beginning part of the divorce process, in that early stage, what do you think is the biggest financial mistake people make?\n\nMolly Haylett 16:30\n\nI would say probably around the clarity that there's a few things really that I that crop up as a pattern, but one for me would be just not understanding exactly what you've got and how they're different. Because if you've got, or your your spouse, or you know, in between you, there's let's say 50,000 in cash, 50,000 in a property, and 50,000 in a pension, they are all very, very different. Mechanically they're different, they've got different roles, but actually their future value is really different as well. So not really understanding what you've got and how, and that's really hard in itself because unless this is something that you that you know or you do, it's very unlikely that you under that you're really into the mechanics and the differences. You know, some people come to this just about knowing the word pension, never mind exactly how that's different and what it all means. So um taking the time, you know, using support, whatever it is that that you need to do to understand how they differ. And I yeah, I was I would say fundamentally there's there's things throughout the process, which I'm sure we'll cover on the other episodes that I always say to people, watch out for this, think about that.\n\nKate Daly 17:34\n\nBut well, let's come on to that. But I think that's a super point to end on. I was having this conversation exactly over the weekend with somebody that a pension pound is not the same as a house pound. And very often people like to do their little spreadsheets with offsets and all the rest of it, but sometimes that can oversimplify what's happening. And it is really important to think through, like you say, the different class of assets that you've got, what they do in the immediate term. So something that might just look very fair in the immediate term when you actually consider the long-term trajectory of that pound, it might be very different depending on how it's held, and therefore you need to have a thought about that at very least. But I like this point. Get organized, push through the pain, get it all down on paper, get it out of your head onto a sheet of paper. That seems to be the overwhelming advice. So, Molly, it's been great talking to you today. Thank you very much for joining me. Thank you. That's it for part one. Thank you, Molly. Make sure to catch next week's episode for more tips on navigating your finances mid-divorce, where you'll find out how to value the family home and untangle the different types of pension. And of course, you can find me on LinkedIn and Instagram and hear about new podcast episodes by subscribing for updates and visiting thedivorsepodcast.com or find us on your favourite listening platform. We'd love to know how we can help further, so please share your questions on divorce separation or co parenting with us. They might just be a topic of a future episode.","VideoLink":"https:\/\/thedivorcepodcast.buzzsprout.com\/182833\/episodes\/19954104-in-brief-money-before-divorce-getting-organised","Title":"In brief: money before divorce - getting organised","EpisodeSlug":"money-before-divorce-getting-organised","LastModifiedDate":"2026-10-14T09:34:58.000Z","CategorySlug":"finances","Category":"Finances","EpisodeUrl":"\/episode\/money-before-divorce-getting-organised","CreatedOn":"2026-10-14","ReleaseDate":"2026-10-14T06:00:00.000Z","Content":"**In partnership with Octopus Money**\n\nWelcome to our 3-part mini-series, packed with helpful tips on finances before your divorce process begins, during it, and how to start rebuilding afterwards.\u00a0\n\nBefore you can split anything fairly in a divorce, you need to know exactly what you've got \u2013 and not all pounds are equal, whether they're sitting in cash, property or a pension.\n\nKate is joined by **Molly Haylett**, Chartered Financial Planner at [Octopus Money](http:\/\/octopusmoney.com\/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=podcast&utm_content=MoneyBeforeDivorce&utm_term=42fe00b7-bf62-4ef3-8d0f-80eece5db1aa), for tips on how to get your finances organised at the start of your divorce process.\n\nWe talk about:\n\n- Why getting a clear picture of your finances\n- What people most commonly forget to include\n- The biggest financial mistake people make at the start of divorce\n\nThis episode is for anyone at the start of their divorce process who wants to feel informed and in control before the bigger financial decisions begin.\nTune in next week to learn about finance during the divorce process.\n\n_The discussions in this podcast, including the adviser's own experiences, are not personal recommendations. Please seek advice from an authorised adviser familiar with your circumstances before taking action. This podcast provides general information only and does not constitute regulated financial advice. Octopus Money is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. This content is intended for UK residents only and is based on UK regulation as of the date of recording._\n\n## About Octopus Money\n\n[Octopus Money](http:\/\/octopusmoney.com\/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=podcast&utm_content=MoneyBeforeDivorce&utm_term=42fe00b7-bf62-4ef3-8d0f-80eece5db1aa) is on a mission to make investing and money advice accessible to all \u2013 because we believe everyone deserves to feel confident about their future. You can get in touch with them to find out more [on their website](http:\/\/octopusmoney.com\/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=podcast&utm_content=MoneyBeforeDivorce&utm_term=42fe00b7-bf62-4ef3-8d0f-80eece5db1aa).\n## More divorce resources\n\n### **Ready to get clear on your finances?**\n\nBook a [free 15-minute consultation](https:\/\/meetings.amicable.io\/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep216_finance_before_divorce&utm_content=episode_description) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation.\n\n### **Want ongoing support through separation?**\n\nJoin [amicable space](https:\/\/amicable.space\/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep216_finance_before_divorce&utm_content=episode_description) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars and articles on finances and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https:\/\/amicable.space\/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep216_finance_before_divorce&utm_content=episode_description).\n\nKate\u2019s book [amicable divorce](https:\/\/amicable.io\/amicable-divorce-book?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep216_finance_before_divorce&utm_content=episode_description) includes a dedicated chapter on navigating finances during separation, including reaching financial agreements based on your real needs (not just 50\/50 splits) and guidance on commonly overlooked assets like pensions. [Find it on Amazon](https:\/\/www.amazon.co.uk\/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting\/dp\/180522610X) today.\n\n### **Got a question for a future episode?**\n\nShare your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/amicable_world\/).\n","ApplePodcasts":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/gb\/podcast\/in-brief-money-before-divorce-getting-organised\/id1403271644?i=1000796259321","CategoryUrl":"\/category\/finances","Featured":true,"YoutubeMusic":"https:\/\/music.youtube.com\/watch?v=LXE25m4wzDc&si=e0kpbOl6F_Wj3MAe","EpisodeNumber":216,"id":"recXjZAnfT1PjgpuE"},{"Spotify":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/episode\/2KxOQhcNUGEjUba0uI4jZ5?si=ikcVDWxNRd2Doi9AieURBg","Guests":[{"id":"recNBlc0FFh6KdwoI","Image":[{"id":"attAXhXSoVJcbxV5P","width":1593,"height":1613,"url":"https:\/\/v5.airtableusercontent.com\/v3\/u\/58\/58\/1793188800000\/hURD25h_ao2hKbQ0A7oCdA\/DKF6kK7Q6VVKGHZJOtW-2th6Q40-bH_Hc7rtfslSUrZdXGXAv7ajqqCh4cPy3hItMF5XGJxIRsjuDBAvDb7XddrztkGaa-HP2kt4y-FCUEQ9zx5M9Y1DAWnnPxMFDNr6V742js8-ZGiXnq0P_lDnqpDVNn2RGwfolb95uNovBAM_d6JWdThuOfmHatZ09kfs\/lKgY9Jr246Du6OUwrtubutsVocBoTwO4Tww_xaKY0fk","filename":"AP_008 Andy Bowker profile image square.jpeg","size":423385,"type":"image\/jpeg","thumbnails":{"small":{"url":"https:\/\/v5.airtableusercontent.com\/v3\/u\/58\/58\/1793188800000\/6MBWJnH7xa1PMpyWPqK6FA\/mHi7cuEpaPiZjawgg2cte_VkPLXDohsJr7NuotlVHaCcMHltvh66jxBRQY37YgxH6AsR2FbWiBJqSUrTjF55Ub2cUXK8CAYjPDsepV9KN7b4OipuZH_iW_cfwB6j112KnRpfwFkZJZfsvkMZMIrgBA\/Tun4wf_lWTa82idF6ZWZBzV1CVa0CxNIJsy3ajXtbFU","width":36,"height":36},"large":{"url":"https:\/\/v5.airtableusercontent.com\/v3\/u\/58\/58\/1793188800000\/qZ9IsjxvwKj6f072eA_kMQ\/KzigmAjExC3ClO4-3TfaRmafAKWullWvUFNgFyhagVcwUiZ8LfvorkpOswxonzC6HXWoWX_Z68fZc0_jbnvKfpdavsbnaTJXhStjFeanuRd076-_kNiTUs2pZLa_51EqKfru0VtgDUbxvjiLCAln4A\/HV-h0nxmil1MesRhvtcrzjcyuJVBaY-AHZZw9rCA7HA","width":512,"height":518},"full":{"url":"https:\/\/v5.airtableusercontent.com\/v3\/u\/58\/58\/1793188800000\/Zp74krfdyKh5XtlFI5P8aQ\/XSPsVDzsanQaIVcHvaKxnHBURsolrZ4-1hTZ28uJ950M8E0AKiAGzqxhKuwDOmvT-v_k7nL4fOJUlyXC3pgiaDvfjDr4xHd6T--isbPBTMFnMtl-KdTCGXyMq_dDMfdR5Zt7URcEsr1j_b1l94weOQ\/u-EwC3WswCZgM3Jee70pfrsDrelaB_MqACYti_W2OHM","width":1593,"height":1613}}}],"FullName":"Andrew Bowker","Episodes 2":["recCOEw7CtLW3zO1h"],"Job":"co-founder of Wedissimo"}],"Excerpt":"If you're divorced and thinking about marrying again, you already know why the money conversation early on is so important.","Duration":38,"CustomSlug":"second-marriage-prenups","Transcript":"Andrew Bowker 0:00\n\nBecause I'm not sure that a prenup is really about planning for divorce. I I don't think it's about planning for failure. I think it's more about being clear on how you're going to deal with money during the relationship.\n\nKate Daly 0:16\n\nWelcome to The Divorce Podcast, where we explore all aspects of ending relationships, separation, and parenting apart. If your marriage or partnership has ended, or you have friends and family who are separating, this podcast is for you. I'm Kate Daly, a relationship counsellor, divorce specialist and co-founder of amicable, the online legal service for separating couples. In each episode, we look at relationships and separation from different angles, including the emotional, legal and social. I'm joined by experts and special guests who share their own unique stories, experience and tips with the goal of helping people end relationships in a kinder and better way. This week I'm delighted to be joined by Andrew Bowker. Andrew is one of the founders of Wedysimo, a UK wedding booking platform that makes it easy for couples to find, compare and book wedding suppliers online. Since launching, Wedisimo has helped thousands of couples book everything from photographers to celebrants, giving Andrew a unique perspective on how modern couples plan their weddings and prepare for marriage. Welcome Andrew.\n\nAndrew Bowker 1:30\n\nHi there, great to be here.\n\nKate Daly 1:32\n\nIt's lovely to have you. Now, the context for today and the starting point is all about prenups and how people prepare for marriage. So I don't want anyone to think they've taken the wrong turn down the corridor and that this is the divorce podcast. But I guess marriage often comes after a divorce. There's a lot of people who marry a second time. But also I think it gives us a really unique insight talking to people like yourself into what kind of plans and preparation people make for marriage and how they talk about money because it's something that at the end of a relationship becomes a huge issue. So I'm really grateful to you for being here so we can have a real deep dive into what makes a good conversation, how to have one, and what you see as people marry and go through this whole process. So I'm really delighted to start and to have you here today. So thank you. But let's kick off then. Tell us a little bit about Wadissimo. Where did the idea come from? How did you think of this as a sort of a way forward to help people?\n\nAndrew Bowker 2:36\n\nYeah, so we we're a wedding supplier booking platform where you can book wedding photographers, DJs, hair and makeup, all the kind of services that you need for a wedding. And what we're really trying to do is to make it simple and transparent for couples. We want people to be able to focus on their marriage rather than on their wedding. And one of the big distractions for couples when they're getting married is this idea of the wedding tax. You've probably heard everyone talk about it, you know, the idea that things that you that have wedding attached to them become more expensive. And that's not a myth. You know, it is actually true. Um, and sometimes there's good reasons for that, you know, like some sometimes the product or service is different. Like a wedding cake is not the same as a cake from Sainsbury's. And so there's a good reason that it would be a different price. But I think what really gets people is when you get the exact same product or service with the word wedding attached, and the price has gone up. And that does happen, and it happened to me. So when when I got married, we wanted little bouquets for the bridesmaids. And all the wedding bouquets were really expensive. So we found, you know, another florist that that offered non-wedding bouquets, ordered those online, put the delivery address in as the venue, and the the florist cancelled the order. They actually wrote to us and sort of said that we hadn't disclosed that it was for a wedding, and that they wouldn't sell us these for for a wedding. And in fact, we would need to buy the wedding version, which was uh remarkably similar in all things but price. Oh for goodness. And so so uh that like there's a very clear example of of someone paying the wedding tax. We didn't actually pay it in the end, we made our own. But well, why does that happen? That's not what you would expect in a normal competitive market, right? Suppliers should be competing for customers, and customers are comparing prices, and that should mean that prices for similar services are the same, but that's that's not what's happened in weddings. There is this markup. So when I looked into this, I think the the reason for it is that couples tend to discover wedding suppliers through classified ads directories. So the model of a classified ads directory is a wedding supplier buys an advert on a website, and that advert is static, you know, it will have a you know, prices from or a guide price, but it won't say the actual price that you can book. And to actually discover the price, you've got to have calls with suppliers and then there's an adjustment for travel, there's an adjustment for the date, you know, bank holiday weekends are more expensive, and you know, and this extra. And so every price is individually negotiated. And at the end of that very arduous process of negotiation, you find out the actual price, by which time you're so exhausted that you don't want to go back to the start of the process and start again. So that is where the wedding tax comes from, is that prices are not clear up front. And so what we've built is a booking platform with sync with the suppliers' calendar so you can see what dates are actually available, and they publish a price for each date. Uh so you can search by date and location, see which suppliers are actually available, and then you can book that actual price. And we think that will make the market more transparent and fairer for couples.\n\nKate Daly 6:11\n\nSo it sounds like from what you're saying that couples are obviously being forced into having these quite detailed conversations about money and budget very early on in the relationship and having to navigate all of that, and you've built this platform to make it simpler and easier to have those conversations and to see what you're spending. I guess that leads me to this question about money, couples, and marriage. Then I see money, couples, and marriage when things are really bad.\n\nAndrew Bowker 6:39\n\nWe see it when they're getting on fine.\n\nKate Daly 6:41\n\nExactly. And you see the other end. Now, it seems to me that there must be some signals about how people are going to navigate money and a working relationship together. What do you see in that space about how couples actually start to talk about money and how they come to something like planning a wedding, which is a big event, which has sometimes a huge price tag? You were telling me earlier, the average cost. Go and say that because it nearly made me cry.\n\nAndrew Bowker 7:10\n\nYeah, the the FT published a survey on this \u00a326,000.\n\nKate Daly 7:14\n\n\u00a326,000. So the start to married life costs the average couple \u00a326,000. Wow, that is incredible. So it's a big sum of money. How do you see people navigating that kind of sum of money?\n\nAndrew Bowker 7:28\n\nSo we see that um about half of our customers are men, half of them are women. So it doesn't seem to be like there's a it's a particularly uh gendered thing. We also can see that they make these decisions uh quite often together. So when people book suppliers on our platform, normally they'll have a video call with that supplier before they go ahead and book. And usually it's both sides of the couple on that call. So I think at that stage it's quite collaborative as to which services people are going to buy and what price they're willing to pay.\n\nKate Daly 8:05\n\nDo you think people come with a budget in mind, or do you think they start off booking individual things and they might have an individual sort of price guide in mind and then all of a sudden things snowball and you get to this \u00a326,000 price tag?\n\nAndrew Bowker 8:20\n\nI think people come with a budget in mind. So if we look at how people use our website, you know, we can you can filter by price and and um you can filter by lots of things, but the main thing people filter by is price. So I think that tells us people have decided for a service what they would like to pay, and then they want to be able to simply find options within that budget.\n\nKate Daly 8:41\n\nRight. So people having these conversations about money early on, they're navigating this whole thing about we've got a budget, we need to stick to it. So it sounds like there's some quite informed conversations about budgeting, money, price, and all of that kind of thing going on. Where do you see things going wrong, if at all?\n\nAndrew Bowker 8:59\n\nWe see things going wrong on the wedding side of things with a family illness is the big one. So weddings get cancelled or moved because someone in the family who's, you know, an important part of that day isn't going to be able to make it. So that is kind of the number one thing that we see. But we do also see examples of where couples book things and then the the relationship is broken down in advance of the marriage. We don't tend to follow up with those couples and ask what happens. Well, I know, yeah, I can understand that. But we do we do see some of that.\n\nKate Daly 9:34\n\nAnd one of the things that we're looking at in the moment as part of the amicable service is prenups. So we've started to look at whether or not there's a better, kind of, fairer way of helping couples set out their expectations about money and what would happen if the relationship doesn't work out. I guess that's quite a hard sell from a wedding platform perspective because you've got people right at the beginning where they're clouded with the romance of it all. But our thinking is that actually it's quite a sensible thing to do because having those conversations about money seems to be really important and fundamental to married life. Do you ever get to talk to people as they're going through the platform about what their attitudes to money and how they resolve differences about money and finances?\n\nAndrew Bowker 10:23\n\nWell, I mean, I think it's a great idea, and I don't think it's a difficult self for a wedding platform because I'm not sure that a prenup is really about planning for divorce. I don't think it's about planning for failure. I think it's more about being clear on how you're going to deal with money during the relationship. So I I, you know, I would have thought a prenup kind of would answer two questions. One is, what am I protecting you know, in the worst case and and and what are we building together? And I think that probably sets a tone for the rest of the relationship that that that couples can build on in the relationship. So I I I don't think I don't think it's about planning for failure. I think it's about being clear about what you're what you're building together, what is separate and what is together. And I think that probably has influences on relationships far earlier than you know, divorce. I don't think a prenup is something where people they write it, they put it in a drawer, and then they only bring it out if the worst happens. I think it influences all sorts of conversations and alignment of incentives during a relationship. Like, for example, let's say you have one that gets offered a job abroad and that's gonna be a great financial boon for the household, but it means that one person's gonna have to sacrifice some of their career. You know, if you've agreed that everything is separate and you have no part of and you have no ownership stake in this, then you know, will that person be willing to give up their career for you? Or will or will they say we're building financial security together and what is best for us is is best for us. So and and so I I think I think those agreements can influence the decisions that people make in relationships and the way people approach conversations in relationships by aligning incentives and they have an impact much earlier than you know, yeah, when they get to later.\n\nKate Daly 12:24\n\nYeah, absolutely. I think you're right because you know, I I am always surprised at how people haven't had those conversations. And I think a lot of people don't appreciate that marriage is a legal contract at the end of the day, and with a marriage come certain rights and responsibilities. And sometimes the point at which the relationship breaks down is the first time that people understand those rights and responsibilities, and yet they've lived their lives and made decisions without really realizing how those decisions will play out in the future if certain events take place.\n\nAndrew Bowker 12:59\n\nWell, and it's not clear, is it? Yeah. I mean, so the the the I'm you know, I'm not a family lawyer and I wouldn't uh like to say anything legal. But my understanding is family law is very principles-based, and some of those principles are conflicting, and that leaves a lot of room for judicial discretion. So you're signing up to a financial obligation on a marriage, whether you like it or not, whether you've discussed it or not, you're agreeing to something, but it is unclear until a judge makes a decision what it is you've actually agreed to.\n\nKate Daly 13:29\n\nYeah, exactly. So, you know, you you might think you've signed up to one thing and it turns out it's something completely different. Yeah.\n\nAndrew Bowker 13:36\n\nAnd I think there's all sorts of misconceptions around that. You know, people have broad ideas. Well, it's a marriage so it's 50-50. Well, sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't.\n\nKate Daly 13:42\n\nYeah, lots of times it isn't. So yeah, their starting point is a 50-50, but there are lots of reasons to depart from that and need being the biggest one, which affects 97, 98% of the population who divorce.\n\nAndrew Bowker 13:56\n\nBut not 98 or 97% of the case law.\n\nKate Daly 13:58\n\nSo we don't really know exactly, and that's exactly the point. So what we hear is that one or two percent from the super rich, we think that's what applies to us, and it doesn't. And that's where a lot of the confusion and myths come along. So I think you're right. I think a prenup gives people the opportunity to explore what their expectations are, to say what's right for them, and to make an explicit contract, which, as you say, cannot just be shoved in a drawer and forgotten about, but has to be looked at every couple of years. And certainly, if there is a big life event, so the birth of a child is the most common one, or as you pointed out, a job abroad or something where it requires somebody to make a different kind of sacrifice. So that to me is super important to get that out on the table because I think that's got to be a better way forward than almost the Russian roulette of family law, which is kind of what we play at the moment.\n\nAndrew Bowker 14:52\n\nOh, absolutely. I couldn't agree more.\n\nKate Daly 14:54\n\nAnd how do you the prenups I think have got a bad reputation? I kind of feel like part of my job now is to change some of that. To say, look, this is not about you know, as is commonly considered one person with money withholding it from somebody else. This is about facilitating a conversation about money and how you're going to handle money in your life. So it's a positive good thing. How do we get that message across, do you think?\n\nAndrew Bowker 15:20\n\nI think some of that bad reputation comes from some of the stuff that we see in the media. What we see about prenups is crazy things that super wealthy celebrities have signed in America, which is a completely different system. And I don't think I don't think that's that's that's what they need to be about. And I don't think that's relevant to the everyday experience of of agreeing and being transparent about money. I think that's you know, people with aggressive lawyers trying to catch people out with terms.\n\nKate Daly 15:48\n\nAnd it makes great telly.\n\nAndrew Bowker 15:51\n\nThe boring normal cleanup doesn't really make great telly, so you never heard about it. And so I think there's there's one thing about that. What we see on TV is not representative of agreements that people have. And I think secondly, there's a thing about process, you know. So I so I know of a case where a couple was about to get married, they'd organised everything, and before the wedding, the the groom to be presented the bride with a really one-sided prenup that he'd had drafted without talking to her about it, and it was like a fate accomplish, sign this or not, you know, and she felt she had to go through with it, and that uh because the wedding was already organized, right? Uh and this uh, you know, was a major factor in the breakdown of of that marriage. So I think there's a second thing about process. So, how do you do this in a kind way, in a way that's getting people a life that they would actually want, a life that they aspire to, you know, a marriage that they aspire to, not like how do I diddle someone by forcing a contract on them at the last minute when it's too late to change their mind.\n\nKate Daly 17:11\n\nYeah. Well, I think one of the things that is incredibly important is that the governments at the moment are consulting. I mean, they might have consulted by the time this comes out, but they're consulting at the moment on what would make a prenup in this country able to be legally binding and enforceable by the courts because at the moment they're not automatically enforceable. You know, the the judge can look at them. And one of the things that, you know, one of the points you just made was the proximity to the wedding. So 28 days are required in this consultation before the marriage. You you can't sign anything in the 28 days and then run up to the marriage, that's deemed to be too much pressure. So that's one kind of really positive thing. I think the other one, as you were saying, is it's got to be reasonable, it's got to take account of people's needs. So it can't be something that's so punitive that it leaves one person in a desperate kind of situation. But I guess a lot of what we see at the moment in terms of people that are interested in this is because of this big wealth transfer. So people who are kind of a bit older than me, but baby boomer generation who are sitting with a whole bunch of wealth at the moment, they're often giving money for weddings or for house deposits and that kind of stuff. And a prenup is a way of having a very open conversation about what should happen to that gift should things not pan out as expected. And I think that's a really kind of key part to all of this. Are you seeing something similar? Like who's paying this \u00a326,000 for the weddings? Is it people's parents? Are there conversations in that scenario about who's paying what back and what happens?\n\nAndrew Bowker 18:54\n\nYeah, I mean, we are seeing this huge wealth transfer, which I think has been driven in in large part by property prices going up, and anyone who owned property in the 80s and has held on to it has has done really well. And so we're starting to see some of that money transfer into gifts to children. And we're starting to see that in the price of weddings. So the price of weddings that now is is \u00a326,000 and it is rising, has has risen uh, you know, dramatically up to this point. And I I think uh that is largely driven by this wealth transfer. And it and it's a very interesting point you mentioned there, you know, how would couples expect to deal with that? Because in my mind, prenups are kind of what are we building together and and what are we keeping separate? And and does that wealth transfer that's you know, in a way not built by anyone in that in that relationship, where does that sit? But and I wouldn't really like to apply how people should apportion that, but they should they should apportion it, you know, they should know, they should know what's going to happen to it.\n\nKate Daly 20:04\n\nYeah, particularly if it's been gifted, and if it's gifted to fund the deposit on a property, then if in the event of divorce and the property is sold, does that money go back to someone's parents, or is that deemed to now be the technical term for it, matrimonialized and therefore not? And it it gives you the opportunity to have that conversation and to say what's fair. Whereas I think what happens now is there might be an expectation from someone's parents that that money's coming back to them in the event of a divorce, but the law doesn't necessarily support that, particularly if it's a needs case and that money is required to meet the housing needs of either of the couple, irrespective of whether it's your son or daughter or the other person. So I think some clarity around that. And it's all about having those conversations, those honest conversations about money, isn't it? And I mean, we feel a bit as a nation, a bit kind of squeamish about talking about money. Is that a generational thing? Do you see younger people coming through who are getting at the point of getting married? Do you see them having more open dialogues about money?\n\nAndrew Bowker 21:12\n\nSome good data on that. Okay, it's from uh there was a poll, maybe uh youGov asked people the question is it vulgar to talk about money? Oh, interesting, yes.\n\nKate Daly 21:22\n\nYeah, yeah.\n\nAndrew Bowker 21:22\n\nAnd amongst the baby boomer generation, 50% of people say it is, 10% don't know, 40% say it's not vulgar. So the majority of people either don't know or think it's vulgar amongst baby boomers. Amongst Gen Z, it's only 17% of people who think uh that it's vulgar to talk about money. Demographics is destiny, right? So as those people grow up, maybe they'll become slightly more conservative. But I suspect what we're seeing here is change.\n\nKate Daly 21:51\n\nSo a real shift in people's willingness to talk about it.\n\nAndrew Bowker 21:55\n\nYeah, and I think, you know, if I were to hazard a guess, we're a progressively less Class-based society than we were, and talking about money feeds into that, I think.\n\nKate Daly 22:06\n\nWell, I guess in some ways the wedding industry is a good barometer for it because you're talking about, you know, what I would consider unvarsum of money at that early stage of your relationship, you're forced to talk about money very early on, and therefore you're sort of setting the tone, aren't you, for being able to have a more open conversation about money and what happens to it and who does what and everything else.\n\nAndrew Bowker 22:28\n\nYeah, and it's and it's a very long process, the wedding planning process. So people are having to have those conversations over a long period of time. You know, people are booking wedding venues up to, you know, two years in advance, sometimes more, but at least 12 months in advance. And so they're having to make that that discussion. Um, but the wedding venue isn't the only thing. There's 10 or 15 different suppliers that you need to book. Each of those needs a conversation about budget and money. You know, you and and the the sums that you can spend are are vastly different. You know, you can spend 5,000 pounds on a wedding photographer. I know someone who spent \u00a350,000 on a wedding photographer. You can also spend \u00a3250 on a wedding photographer, and you should, and you will have to have that conversation before you before you book one.\n\nKate Daly 23:10\n\nI guess as well, irrespective of how much is in your budget, people's attitude to money is different. And this is one of the things we talk about quite a bit when it comes to divorce and separation. You know, you can have people, everyone's got an individual relationship with money. It's usually set very early on in their childhood, and attitudes to money and how much money is appropriate, irrespective of your wealth, can be really quite distant conversations in the sense that you could have very different views on that as a couple. Do you get a sense of how people, are people getting any better at navigating or even being able to spot the differences earlier on in the relationship journey?\n\nAndrew Bowker 23:52\n\nI mean, I have some of my own personal experience with this. I mean, I I'm from Scotland and we have a particular view of money. But you know, I remember, you know, being taken to the bank with my Christmas present money, you know, deposit five pounds, and you come back the next year, and interest rates at the time were massive. So, you know, it'd be like six pounds. No one, no one explained to me that inflation was also massive. Uh so you know. And and I think I think that kind of thing shapes people. I mean, I wonder for Gen Z who've grown up in a zero interest rate environment where their cash savings uh would have been eroded and not grown, whether they have a a different view on savings.\n\nKate Daly 24:31\n\nYeah, quite possibly. But I think it's just interesting that the wedding gives you the opportunity to have a conversation about money, even if that's the first time you've spoken about money. I don't personally don't think it should be. I think talking about money is a second date question for me every day of the week because I want to filter them out early. If it's somebody who just doesn't share my values and doesn't understand, you know, the attitude to money, then I'm, you know, I find I think that's one of the real things that settle a relationship or not. And it's something from experience of working in the divorce industry that we see as one of the biggest things to drive people apart is that different attitudes to money, particularly where you've got somebody who's a real saver in the relationship and has invested a lot of stuff versus someone who spends, spends, spends. When it comes to divorce, the person who spent, spent, spent actually benefits in some way because the savers, yeah, the saver is forced to share all the resources, the spenders not sharing anything. So it's really tricky. And I think if people understood what happens when it comes to splitting matrimonial assets and property and all of that kind of stuff, they would have these conversations much earlier on. And as you say, that shouldn't be seen as planning for failure. It should be seen as a healthy way of navigating one of the things that can trip you up in a relationship, which is this subject of money. So I'm all for trying to have better conversations about money and just talking to you. It strikes me that even if you've not had one till this point, the wedding provides you with a perfect opportunity to say, well, what do we think is reasonable? And it sounds like people must be having those conversations if they've arrived at a budget.\n\nAndrew Bowker 26:20\n\nUh yeah, I think so. But and and I I, in my view, I think the conversation about money would be one of the first things that you would do. I I would say it would, it's not part of wedding planning. It's part of the decision process of is this a life that I want? You know, and there's some big questions out there, isn't there? You know, do you want kids? What country do you want to live in? How should we uh view money in this relationship? And these are the kinds of questions that you need answers to before you know whether you actually want to get married to that person. And once you've got that, you know, then you can do all the wedding planning stuff. So, but I think there's probably a thing that's happening now where people are having conversations about money for weddings. And but it's it's a secondary conversation, isn't it? The wedding is very important, and that it's my business, and it, you know, it's very important. But it's not as important as marriage. And I would say to couples to be having those conversations before you've even decided whether you want a wedding.\n\nKate Daly 27:18\n\nYeah. No, it's a really interesting point and a really good point you make because ultimately, if you don't know what you're getting into, why get into it?\n\nAndrew Bowker 27:26\n\nYeah, why yes? Why pay for a wedding?\n\nKate Daly 27:29\n\nWell, it's expensive, isn't it? If you're going to get it wrong. Absolutely. Absolutely. I guess the other side of this coin. So we talked about people who are starting off their journey together, young people, millennials, Gen Zs, people who are having these conversations early on, who hopefully are having conversations about money, as you say, before they even start to do the wedding planning. There's another group of people, and maybe, you know, more of our audience, because it's people who've perhaps been divorced once and are maybe marrying for a second time around. I've been married twice, divorced twice. I'm very optimistic, Andrew. I might get married again, but I would never get married without a prenup. And that's because I've been there, seen it, done it, and I would want to know that I'd had a conversation and that everybody was clear on how we were going to work with money and what was going to be, you know, kept, what's going to be shared and everything else. So that to me strikes me as quite an easy audience to get to because we're all here through bitter experience. Do you think there's a difference in terms of the willingness of, say, people who've been through the experience of divorce to take on a preenup?\n\nAndrew Bowker 28:40\n\nWell, I think there's two competing factors there. One is the older you are, the less likely likely you are to want to talk about money, as we've seen from that Ugov study. But when I've spoken to customers of ours about remarriage, they're much more concerned about the practicalities of things. So I think people getting married for the first time, they're very concerned about the wedding and Instagram and a bunch of stuff that is important, but it's it's not necessarily the practical things. And that's probably because they haven't they haven't seen how things go right and how things go wrong. But when I speak to older customers getting married for the second time, they've put a lot more thought into the relationship side of things and the practicalities. And they don't care as much about the wedding day.\n\nKate Daly 29:30\n\nI guess that's the beauty of a prenup, though, isn't it? Almost because you can put anything you like in there. So you can put some of the practical stuff. It's not just about, you know, the nitty-gritty finances of who's taking what if it doesn't work. There are so many practical elements that can go into a prenup. And it's a creative document at the end of the day, and it's designed for the two of you and what's going to make your relationship work rather than there being a standard template or anything like that. So I guess that's kind of it works for those people, doesn't it? Because as second time around as or third time around as or however many time around as we are, we've got that creative control over a document that sets out and hopefully gives us a bit more confidence going into another relationship.\n\nAndrew Bowker 30:19\n\nAbsolutely. And um and I think um when you've been in a relationship before, you probably know more a bit more about yourself. You know, what actually makes you happy, what does what doesn't make you happy, and what about my partner will make me happy or not happy? And how do we reflect that in this document in a way that is voiced, in a way that is written, in a way that is clear rather than implicit negotiations. I think people going around second time will have a much better chance of being able to say themselves what will make them happier.\n\nKate Daly 30:55\n\nAnd I think you're right. I think part of the kind of things that we see when we're on when we're helping people divorce and separate, and particularly after a long marriage, where as you were saying before, people may have sacrificed careers and they may not be in the same strong earning position. They may not have the pension that their partner has if they've given up work. I think for those people, understanding earlier on what the financial consequences are of decisions that you're making in the good of the family, which has the assumption that you will always be a couple, is really important. I just feel like that's such an important point. And if you can understand that and have those conversations earlier on, facilitated by the idea of having a prenup, then you are giving yourself the absolute best protection, whichever side of the kind of marriage coin you're on, whether you're the higher owner or the lower earner, it kind of doesn't matter. You're taking that collective view and saying, as a family, we need to all be looked after. And we believe this document will do that rather than relying on the marriage laws and the interpretation of those laws by a judge who doesn't know you, doesn't know your circumstances, hasn't been involved in some of those side conversations that very often aren't documented, or as you say, are just implicit assumptions rather than outwardly spoken conversations. And I think that's really difficult for people.\n\nAndrew Bowker 32:26\n\nAbsolutely. And I and I think you can make better decisions if you've got certainty over the over what those decisions mean. You know, maybe there's a bunch of people, I don't know, but maybe there are a bunch of people who would have thought the best decision for their family was was to make career sacrifices, but then haven't had the confidence to do that because they're not clear on whether they've got financial security in the worst case scenario.\n\nKate Daly 32:50\n\nYeah, exactly. And I think having the prenup and having the discussion allows you to surface all of those anxieties rather than suppress them, and then they build as resentment just at the point where a relationship is breaking down and you end up in a very bitter divorce battle. So I think if we want to as a nation get better at being able to move between relationships as we live longer, as we're more likely to have more than one long-term relationship, then to me the prenup has to be part and parcel of that shift.\n\nAndrew Bowker 33:22\n\nYeah, I agree. And I think that there is a changing thing about gender as well. You know, in the past, if you went back 50 years, this only worked one way, right? It would be women making sacrifices for men. But that is, you know, that's not what I see in my kind of friendship group anymore. But there are lots of women making high-earning decisions and and lots of men making career sacrifices. And I think some of those men would have would have made bigger career sacrifices, perhaps if they had more certainty over what would happen, yeah.\n\nKate Daly 34:00\n\nYeah, exactly. Exactly. That that can only be a good thing. And as as other laws around paternity leave and around shared care arrangements and all that sort of thing take off, and more men choose to be the homemaker or share the care and the mental load, that obviously has to become more prescient in everyone's mind that these conversations are natural and needed to be had in order to make sure that everybody can see the pathways and the options that are open.\n\nAndrew Bowker 34:28\n\nSo yeah, as an as an enabling factor, you you know, you're not able to make those sacrifices unless you know you have security coming from somewhere else.\n\nKate Daly 34:39\n\nYeah, exactly. Exactly. So uh we started with this idea that prenups and wedding planning didn't necessarily go together. We've talked ourselves into a position now where they absolutely are synonymous. So when are you going to start offering prenups on your wedding planning service then?\n\nAndrew Bowker 34:56\n\nI think it's a great thing to do. We'd love to chat to you about it.\n\nKate Daly 34:58\n\nSo if you were giving somebody who's visiting your platform some tips and advice on the conversations around money, what would you say to them?\n\nAndrew Bowker 35:07\n\nWell, I would say conversations around money, have them early because you need to know whether you're compatible on this very important dimension. And then when you're you're planning out your wedding day, you don't need to pay the wedding tax. There's no good reason that things are more expensive just because it's for the wedding. So you can go to wedisimo.com, you can see what the prices are for all the different service providers for your date, and you can, having had that conversation with your partner and what your budgets are, you can find suppliers to fit that budget.\n\nKate Daly 35:44\n\nBrilliant. Well, look, thank you ever so much for joining me today. It's been fascinating. I love the idea that we've clashed weddings and divorce together and come up with this uh this whole podcast. I hope other people will find it useful too, whether you're a second time around or a third time around or whatever, or whether you're just starting out. It feels like these conversations about money are absolutely crucial. And being able to have a document that says what the two of you want rather than what the traditional norm is feels super important too. So thank you, uh Andrew, for joining me. Just give yourself a shout out one more time. Where can people find the platform?\n\nAndrew Bowker 36:18\n\nWe are Widissimo. You can go to Widissimo.com and see all the suppliers for your wedding. Search by date, location, and price. You can message suppliers, you can book video calls with them, and you can check out securely online. Brilliant. Thank you.\n\nKate Daly 36:34\n\nThat's all we've got time for today. Thank you for sharing your tips and advice with us. And of course, you can find me on LinkedIn and Instagram. You can hear about new podcast episodes by subscribing for updates and visiting thedivorsepodcast.com, or you can find us on your favourite listening platform. We'd love to know how we can help more. So please share questions on divorce, separation, and co-parenting with us at hello at amicable.co.uk, and they might form the next topic for one of our future episodes. Don't forget as well, you can also join our subscription platform, Amicable Space, where you'll find our community forum, a safe place to ask anything at all as you go through separation or co-parenting. Members also get access to our monthly QA webinars with amicable's very own divorce specialists, and you can ask your questions in real time. The link to sign up there is in the episode description. Thank you very much indeed, Andrew. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you today, and thank you everyone for listening.","VideoLink":"https:\/\/thedivorcepodcast.buzzsprout.com\/182833\/episodes\/19912733-second-marriage-or-first-put-a-prenup-on-your-wedding-checklist","Title":"Second marriage or first: put a prenup on your wedding checklist","EpisodeSlug":"second-marriage-prenups","LastModifiedDate":"2026-10-07T09:28:10.000Z","CategorySlug":"life-after-divorce","Category":"Life after divorce","EpisodeUrl":"\/episode\/second-marriage-prenups","CreatedOn":"2026-10-07","ReleaseDate":"2026-10-07T06:00:00.000Z","Content":"[Watch the full episode on YouTube](https:\/\/youtu.be\/M_l8Q30P6MA?si=JtITm8ebIN0sa-1j).\n\nIf you're divorced and thinking about marrying again, you already know why the money conversation early on is so important.\n\nKate is joined by **Andrew Bowker**, co-founder of wedding booking platform [Wedissimo](https:\/\/wedissimo.com\/), to talk about why honest conversations about money are the foundation of any relationship \u2013 and why prenups exist to have that conversation properly, not to plan for failure.\n\nIn this episode, we cover:\n\n- Why people remarrying after divorce approach money and prenups differently\n- What a prenup is actually for\n- Why agreements like these need revisiting as life changes\n- Why younger generations find it easier to talk about money\n\nThis episode is for anyone remarrying after separation or divorce, or anyone who wants to have a better money conversation with their partner from the get-go\n\n## About Wedissimo\n\n[Wedissimo](https:\/\/wedissimo.com\/) is a UK wedding booking platform that makes it easy for couples to find, compare and book wedding suppliers online. Since launching, Wedissimo has helped thousands of couples book everything from photographers to celebrants, giving Andrew a unique perspective on how modern couples plan their weddings and prepare for marriage.\n\n## Sources mentioned in this episode\n\nThe \u00a326,000 average cost of getting married: Financial Times,[ \"The wedding racket: how tying the knot became so expensive,\"](https:\/\/www.ft.com\/content\/a73eaba6-d0f5-4134-9910-8f691134b7c3) 26 April 2025.\n\nGenerational attitudes to talking about money (baby boomers 50%, Gen Z 17% say it's vulgar to discuss): YouGov,[ \"Is it vulgar to talk about money?\"](https:\/\/yougov.co.uk\/society\/articles\/52278-is-it-vulgar-to-talk-about-money)\n\n\nThe UK government's prenuptial agreement proposals, including the 28-day pre-wedding signing requirement:[ \"A Fairer End to Relationships,\"](https:\/\/www.gov.uk\/government\/consultations\/a-fairer-end-to-relationships) a government consultation that ran 5 June\u201314 August 2026. The consultation has now closed and a government response is pending.\n\nThe UK's top 1% of households by wealth: Office for National Statistics,[ Wealth and Assets Survey](https:\/\/www.ons.gov.uk\/peoplepopulationandcommunity\/personalandhouseholdfinances\/incomeandwealth\/bulletins\/totalwealthingreatbritain\/april2018tomarch2020), with a net wealth threshold of around \u00a33.1 million (Round 8, April 2020\u2013March 2022, published January 2025) to \u00a33.6 million (April 2018\u2013March 2020 round).\u00a0\n\n## More amicable resources\n\n### **Feeling ready to take practical steps forward?**\n\nWhether you're moving in together, getting married or getting divorced, amicable helps you navigate change together.[ Book a free 15-minute consultation](https:\/\/meetings.amicable.io\/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep215_wedissimo&utm_content=episode_description) for expert legal, financial and practical support.\n\n### **Got a question for a future episode?**\n\nShare your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/amicable_world\/).\n","ApplePodcasts":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/gb\/podcast\/second-marriage-or-first-put-a-prenup-on-your\/id1403271644?i=1000793603520","CategoryUrl":"\/category\/life-after-divorce","Featured":true,"YoutubeMusic":"https:\/\/music.youtube.com\/watch?v=M_l8Q30P6MA&si=0JywrrVprY7V4bd4","EpisodeNumber":215,"id":"recCOEw7CtLW3zO1h"}]