[{"Spotify":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/episode\/094G97K9KrFOrxZeGTvtZo?si=vZaKITBgQm-feZ1u5tBJiQ","Guests":[{"id":"recJv8PSumLlk68no","Image":[{"id":"attVA1MNmURTuW7EE","width":1920,"height":2333,"url":"https:\/\/v5.airtableusercontent.com\/v3\/u\/56\/56\/1788019200000\/1cqwhHxGkaLzos_dSRpi0g\/0kkhNtuhIKJa1mhphMYEvCT2b3O41ULXtaBq8tEPb4NMok2qUvxY6J3fvSM_4rHen5a4TITzOc7SRAEhdcgswIito4-H0bKVjKH_pq5T2rQ0q9p9dQy0DRpLgMvMl3DsZw19joXsm7o-1jhWvhRPwRjLF2-p_GmXkL-DxPZBZYM8teYkvJmYAqHLvIXsnZ_1\/9EP2hS2jvSthfUsbjpqwRVXjJd166ydEEtYKtALj7Fc","filename":"9c3b1271-4998-42ca-935a-b1ad87d44dbc.jpg","size":531492,"type":"image\/jpeg","thumbnails":{"small":{"url":"https:\/\/v5.airtableusercontent.com\/v3\/u\/56\/56\/1788019200000\/LsWg7sJi6qrVcJkosVVlHg\/Wx4iZA7pGAlRApGkS-DW1MUwGi-mPptDbSHgZf6qHuLVyqswdTFNCC8qDs4vysWR7smx75iKvvJ0vFUzK7G6xgm5m0FZjtl6j2EaA0ZrrSD1koAjktStBpk85UNNCn7bdQFzfwTFmRigKztz6JnOdQ\/qv5DmGkFXZGmdvWHIw3gWW5P-WqwGwPFYgDj26wOd5A","width":30,"height":36},"large":{"url":"https:\/\/v5.airtableusercontent.com\/v3\/u\/56\/56\/1788019200000\/-f90gh4uaTXHLoyG8t5wOw\/L2cpjLinj73zKqKwHsNsktyhJ_Zu3NZL4ywlMitnJDw9d3cQFvw83zu9_Fi16S6Yy2gwUifUuPdMmcgcOtXTIJJnTn4q4wzM0EZV3BeR3KRos_ocXz4IHYYKTm4_bFQquDUK0-DxMUd0NAMYLqiccA\/SkIjkAtCpFaWb3rOAdHVATijNjpTxny9_ImrCQJczGc","width":512,"height":622},"full":{"url":"https:\/\/v5.airtableusercontent.com\/v3\/u\/56\/56\/1788019200000\/D4q0BtCJfpPp-7DVWkop5w\/2nsPSNpze-9fQFdmfmpEovobzdhXe1GA_hWQ0DGLiWhvcvYlNgVRpfXPxyOd50MIDGYTcBK-yhNFMSFMl2OBf-h_47dEQkYHi4LKf2LFAnvhLj4hUbvQUiWvQyG25jwPEW7CTpiIAJSMUKlJCkvpRQ\/oYjcGahc7O48tALxb-pb_FJqizV_fJumYCV4H6MbIO0","width":1920,"height":2333}}}],"FullName":"Buzzy Randall","Episodes 2":["recFAiGAqphpQ95Wd"],"Job":"Host of The Big D podcast"}],"Excerpt":"What do you show your children when you decide your marriage has to end?","Duration":40,"CustomSlug":"role-model-for-children-through-divorce","Transcript":"Buzzy Randall 0:00\n\nDoesn't matter what side of the divorce you're on, you're going to be affected, your confidence is going to be knocked, it's going to be painful, whatever. And to be in that scary place without much confidence, you realise a lot about yourself.\n\nKate Daly 0:18\n\nWelcome to The Divorce Podcast, where we explore all aspects of ending relationships, separation, and parenting apart. If your marriage or partnership has ended, or you have friends and family who are separating, this podcast is for you. I'm Kate Daly, a relationship counsellor, divorce specialist, and co-founder of amicable, the online legal service for separating couples. In each episode, we look at relationships and separation from different angles, including the emotional, legal, and social. I'm joined by experts and special guests who share their own unique stories, experience, and tips, with the goal of helping people end relationships in a kinder and better way. In this episode, I'm joined by Bussy Randall, a hospitality consultant, to share her own separation story from role modelling for her children to the shame around infidelity, friendship shifts, and finding her confidence again. This episode touches on issues of infidelity, so do listen with care. If you love this episode, then please subscribe and rate us on your preferred listening platform. Welcome, Buzzy. Thank you. I'm delighted to be here. It's really lovely to have you. And it's exciting to be able to spend some time talking about your own divorce story and your personal journey and how that shaped your career and how you help other people as well. So I'm really looking forward to this conversation. Let's start, if we can, by you sharing a little bit about your own separation story. So was there a single moment when you knew your marriage was over, or was it something that built more slowly than that?\n\nBuzzy Randall 2:01\n\nWell, it was two things. It was both, really. And I suppose that uh everybody who goes through a separation and a divorce will say similar things that in hindsight all the signs were there, but you didn't want to see them. So there was a defining moment that involved me reading a message on his phone that really confirmed the suspicions that I'd had and that just really put a full stop on it. And I felt very passionately, as a mother of daughters, that I had to act in a very considered way for their futures, and that I had to show them as a woman that we were worth more. Because I know that a lot of couples can get through an infidelity, but I felt that we were not a couple that could, and that that I wanted to show my daughters that they were worth more, that they that being cheated on was not something that they had to put up with when they grow up. So, yes, that was the kind of defining moment.\n\nKate Daly 3:18\n\nYeah. That is so interesting because we often talk about what you role model to your children when you know you're at the point of deciding whether or not a marriage is over. And I often have conversations with people where I say to them when they're kind of thinking that it might be worse for their kids if they leave, even if the marriage is broken, dysfunctional, not working. And I don't mean that there has to be abuse or something really like really terrible going on, but even, as you say, things that are just not morally right from your perspective or don't feel right, where it's infidelity and things like that. And I often say to people, well, would you want your kids, if your kids came to you and asked for your advice and asked you whether or not they should aspire to the relationship that you have, if the answer to that isn't yes, then you are you've got a quite a tough decision because effectively you're role modelling that staying is okay, even though you don't think it's okay. And that's really confusing for kids. It's really truck, it's really tricky. So I it's really interesting to hear you say that. That you felt you felt straight away that you knew that it wasn't something that you could get past. Because 18 years, you've been married 18 years, that is a long marriage, isn't it? It's a long time to be with somebody.\n\nBuzzy Randall 4:38\n\nI think the thing that really hurt the most was that it's 18 years building a future for that future to then come crashing down, is it's not so much the 18 years that you've spent together because you've had those 18 years, it's then seeing the next 18 years and what do they look like. And that's where my children really became so important in that decision making because they've got then they're now teenagers, and they're going to be embarking on relationships and hopefully marriages of their own and families of their own. And it was really important to for me to show them what a strong and capable woman I can be as their mum, but also they can be.\n\nKate Daly 5:32\n\nYou role modeled it from the outset, which is really interesting because sometimes in those moments when you're right at the sharp end of it, your own emotions and the immediacy of how it feels can can overwhelm you, can't it? And it can completely get out, you know, in the way. But it sounds to me like actually, even in that real sort of moment of crisis, you were thinking about the bigger picture. How do you do that? How are you not overwhelmed?\n\nBuzzy Randall 5:59\n\nI was utterly overwhelmed for months, if not years. So I I mean, it's easy to sit here now and say, oh, well, I made a decision based on them. I mean, it was terrifying, it still is terrifying, but it's also definitely it definitely was the right decision. And I do question if I'd had boys, if I might have made a different decision. But I didn't have boys, so there's no point kind of dwelling on it. But I it's I suppose in in the process of healing and going through all of this and my studies and psychology and everything, I have thought, I wonder if I wasn't so if it wasn't so important for me to show my girls the strength of being a woman, if my decision would have been a different one, or if I would have maybe felt it wasn't so important and you know, well, maybe just stick through it and brush it under the carpet. I don't know that I don't have sons, I have daughters. So the decision was made.\n\nKate Daly 7:14\n\nAnd as you were going through this, you said you were overwhelmed, and as you were going through that sense of feeling so overwhelmed, what was it that allowed you to kind of move forward? Because there'll be people listening who will recognise this narrative and recognize the story. What helped you put one foot in front of another? How did you keep going in those very early days when you'd made this big decision to end a long marriage that had children involved? You know, they're some of the biggest barriers, aren't there? It wasn't a short marriage, it wasn't that there wasn't any kids, you know, it was complicated. You'd shared a life of 18 years together, you're staring down the barrel of, as you say, not the lovely times you've had in the past, but the sense of nothingness. You've got to rebuild this future you'd expected to have. What helped you in those moments go from one day to the next?\n\nBuzzy Randall 8:05\n\nI think it's really important, certainly at the very beginning, to a bit like when you're going into battle, you need to, or or you're playing a sport, you need to have your team around you. And that can look different to everybody, but it's your immediate support network. And my children were part of that team, but and my family, my parents, my sisters, they were part of that team. But then also I got a mentor, which happened by complete chance. Um, but I was consulting with the career coach. I was saying to her, she's become a really good friend of mine and she's brilliant and she's totally helped me out. But I was saying, I just I'm struggling with the divorce process. I don't know anybody who has been through what I'm going through, and I don't know the process. I don't know the like there's no divorce in my family anywhere. So, and I don't I don't know what the lawyers are saying, I don't know what to expect, I don't understand any of this. I felt really alone, which is bizarre because 50% of us who are married are gonna go through this, and so it's it felt really strange to be going through something that so many people go through and yet feeling like I was the only person in the world going through it. And I explained this to her, and she said, I've got a friend, he's going through a divorce, he's about a year ahead of you in the process. Call him. And so we we spoke, and still I still speak to him every week. We schedule an hour, and he's become one of my closest friends, and I adore him. And he I'd like to think we both really helped each other, but he was really helpful and just helped explain the processes and and I think also him being a male helped because I wasn't.\n\nKate Daly 10:05\n\nYou had an alternative perspective, you weren't just hunkering down as the female side of the story, but you had an insight into presumably how you'd need to negotiate and what what your ex might be thinking, and you'd got an insight into that. And I think that's the bit that so many times we miss when we're going through this. But actually, it's not so much I think people get obsessed with thinking about having a very clear strategy for what they want and what they need, and you forget that actually the successful negotiators amongst the world, they're the people who think about what the other person needs. So, what are you what are you allowing them to get off their tick list that will allow them to say yes to your tick list? That's to me is so interesting. So, this was all because you had a male friend going through it at the same time, or yeah, albeit he was ahead of you.\n\nBuzzy Randall 10:58\n\nYeah, but he yes, he's I value his friendship enormously. And of course, it's the sisterhood, isn't it? I mean, uh, my girlfriends, so what I lived abroad initially, my ex-husband and I lived abroad, and then I came back to the UK with the girls so that they could go to school here. And so we moved to a part of the country that was nowhere that I was familiar with. So I knew no one, had no friends, um, didn't know the area at all. But I created a group of friends, and I'd only known this the group of friends probably for about six months before my marriage ended. But that group of friends just rallied and they still rally for me when I need them. And the power of the sisterhood is extraordinary, and so I don't, you know, in those initial days when it was all terrible, they it's that team of people that picked me up. And I think the fact that I was in a position to know that I what I needed, I think a lot of people maybe think, I don't know what I need, I don't know where I'm going. And I just was ready to hold on to any life raft that I could. And and actually they were all life rafts, and they're the ones that got me through it and put a smile on my face, I suppose.\n\nKate Daly 12:25\n\nI think you're right. I don't think you can underestimate the power of, you know, you said you needed your team around you, and the different people within that network play different roles, don't they? So you might have professional people, you might have the coach or the mentor or whoever, and then you might have a close group of girlfriends who are there, as you say, as that emotional life raft who will, you know, pick you up, take you for a walk, look after the kids, or you know, create a play date or whatever it is, or bring the wine round, or help with some of the more practical things. It is it's having that group that you can rely on. And sometimes I think this is where men in particular miss out a bit more because sometimes, not always, but sometimes the friendship bonds aren't quite so strong, and it's harder, less culturally acceptable for men to ask for that support. And we shouldn't underestimate the fact that you asked for support with a group of people who were relatively new to you as well. That's brave. That's really brave. How did you get the strength to reach out? Was it, I mean, maybe it was sheer desperation, but it feels or maybe it's part of personality, but what is it that kind of allowed you to reach out in those circumstances?\n\nBuzzy Randall 13:42\n\nSo I felt deeply humiliated by my situation. And there is stigma about your I felt very much when that my husband had had an affair and left me. And I felt that that was very much a reflection of me to begin with. And so, and he also left. Like, we didn't see him, he just wasn't then part of our lives. And so there was an element of explaining that I had to do at the school events and the school this and the school.\n\nKate Daly 14:17\n\nIt was a hard exit, wasn't it? Really, it wasn't anything you you could gradually wind his presence down in any way. It was it was obviously very dramatic and hard.\n\nBuzzy Randall 14:26\n\nYeah, and you have to you have to explain why he's not there. So I was like, I have to face this head on, pull on my big garb pants and do it. And you know, there are terrible things happening in the world. This is not one of them, I can do it. And it was just, and it was actually just saying to everybody, yeah, this is this is what's going on, but we're gonna get through it. And everyone went, yeah, we're gonna help you get there. And it's amazing how how when you I think I think people really do want to support and show love and empathy. And if you're honest about it, that just comes in bucket loads. And I'm really glad I didn't hide behind it because I did feel such a huge amount of shame to begin with and humiliation.\n\nKate Daly 15:17\n\nAnd that why do we feel shame and humiliation for something that's not our fault and is a part of life and a natural process? I just don't understand. But we do, don't we? We all do, we all feel shame. But where does that come from, do you think?\n\nBuzzy Randall 15:32\n\nI think it's a generational thing, and I think it ties back to another reason why it was so important that I ended the marriage, because we, I think, as women, we're often brought up to to feel that shame and to to be martyrs and to to do everything and and be everything. And there is a generational shift that's happening now. I think there's a societal shift and a cultural shift in in our roles as women within this society. And and also for men, like my my younger sister's husband does 50% of all the childcare, all the housework. I mean, it's incredible. They have this incredible setup that didn't exist when I first got married and had children, and and it's very much the norm now. And and so I think we have this this residual shame that's been passed down to us that it's humiliating and shameful that your husband has not, you know, has had to look elsewhere. It's in some way a reflection on you. Whereas I think that is that is gonna change. And and I hope that when my daughters get married, that that's absolutely not a conversation that's had.\n\nKate Daly 16:57\n\nIt's funny because when you were talking before and you were saying you felt humiliated, I was thinking, why do we carry the emotional feeling for somebody else's choice or behavior? So somebody does something, in this case has an affair, and yet we take on the feelings of shame and upset. And that I think you're right, that is a cultural thing. There must be something wrong with us if that person has treated us in that way, not let's look at their behavior and critique their behavior. But what have we done wrong in order to encourage that behavior? And that goes through a lot of things around violence against women, sexual violence, all of those sorts of things. That same thread is woven all the way through, isn't it? And I think that's something that we have to, we have to try and teach this next generation, as you say, that that's not the cultural norm. And part of what you're doing, I guess, in the way you behave by saying that's just not acceptable, that's a boundary cost, is exactly that. It's modelling that new kind of behavior. So it's a really amazing story, a really incredible story to unpack. So I'm I'm really appreciative that you're sharing it. What do you think then? Thinking about that mentor that you had. So you've got your circle of friends who are doing the emotional hard work, the day in, day out, school gate stuff with you. What was it about having a mentor that helped you navigate, you know, the next stages and the next stages? What did it do for your emotional resilience, do you think?\n\nBuzzy Randall 18:28\n\nWell, I think because we didn't know each other before. So, and and I suppose in an old-fashioned way, it would have been a pen pal. Like I've actually only met him in person twice, but we speak on the phone, like I said, every week. And it was having somebody who was completely neutral to my life and to my history, didn't know anything about me or my ex-husband, my children, or my family, nothing. We just had, and likewise me, him. And so we had this completely blank page with which to build the trust. So I was then able to choose what parts of my story were important to tell him at any given time. And and I suppose that's like any friendship, it builds over time, and likewise he did with me. And we now know lots about each other's lives, but he also there was no judgment, so there wasn't, you know, if I was like, I'm just having a really bad week, he just was like, I'm sorry to hear that. And that's kind of what I needed to hear. I didn't want to then get get into the the nuts and bolts of why I'd had a bad week. He was just like, Yeah, that that happens sometimes.\n\nKate Daly 19:53\n\nAnd he went, it sounds like he wasn't trying to fix you, like he wasn't trying to say, Yeah, oh well, if you had a bad week, then you're at this point in the process, and so you need to be going off and doing A, B, C, D. So it felt, it feels like it's almost, you know, you well, you're a psychologist, aren't you, as well? You it's like that creating those core conditions where you can be heard without judgment, and there's the space and there isn't somebody's agenda showing up or any of those sorts of things. So it feels like it was a really welcome space for you to be you in that moment. And like you say, to bring without the fear of being fixed, to say without the fear of being judged, all of that kind of stuff. That feels really quite important as like as part of that recovery journey.\n\nBuzzy Randall 20:37\n\nYes, I think it is important. I think, I think one of the big, the big things that that certainly I wasn't aware of was how your friend group changes in a separation. And I think it's only natural, but I look back on it, I'm like, of course, there are loyalties that are gonna go either way, and those loyalties can be based on history. You know, well, I people have known my ex-husband longer than they've known me, they're gonna maintain a friendship with him. At the time, I couldn't understand how that was possible. Knowing the choices that he'd made, I felt that that was unfair. But actually, of course it's fair. And people make their own choices in what whatever direction they go. And I think that I didn't lose friends, but I lost the connection, which was the fact that my husband and I were married and we were a couple, and therefore our friendship was based on that. So when that changed, that friendship changed. But in the process, I got a whole new group of friends. So where there's a loss, there's a gain. And I think initially that overwhelm that we talked about earlier. That is very much I was overwhelmed by the change in the friendships. And I wasn't because the new friendships were forming, I didn't see the strength in them. I saw the massive, the massive loss. Whereas now I look and I see the strength in those friendships as they've got stronger, as the process has gone on. And I valued those so much.\n\nKate Daly 22:26\n\nBut you're describing loss aversion therapy, that loss aversion principle as well, aren't you? Where we feel losses way more keenly than we feel gains. But it's interesting that you say that gets moderated over time when you can look back at events and actually appreciate what you gained, you know, way more than worrying about what you lost as well. So it's we were talking, weren't we, just before we came on, before we came on air and hit the record button, this idea that you your story just develops over time. There isn't a one truth to the story. We're looking in at your story at this particular point in time and it looks a certain way. But if we came back and did this again later, two years, three years, five years, ten years down the line, then your story would sound and feel maybe different again, wouldn't it? So I'm really interested in this idea of how these stories unfold and you know that the timeline involved as well. So yeah, funny. You mentioned earlier that you've you've got two daughters, and you also said that you were living abroad. Was there an opportunity to co-parent then with the with the the girls? Or how did that all work? How did you sort of segue into this sort of having some kind of parenting relationship?\n\nBuzzy Randall 23:43\n\nSo that that for me that hasn't happened. So we don't co-parent. But also I must give credit to I I have a wonderful new partner, and he has stepped into the role of being a we're not married, but of being a step parent. I suppose where there was a vacancy for a male figure in the girls' lives, he's just come in and been completely wonderful. So he is with me on the pitch side and at the school events and on the weekends doing homework.\n\nKate Daly 24:22\n\nAnd how do you think the girls have adjusted then to sort of a new way of being? You mentioned at the beginning of this that you know nobody in your family was divorced, you didn't have any divorced friends. So have you found divorced friends? And therefore, is this kind of more normalized to them, or do they feel, I know you can't speak for them, or do you get the sense that they're they feel different? How does that part of it work in your family? How do you talk about that stuff?\n\nBuzzy Randall 24:51\n\nWell, I think I mean we do talk about it. Yes, there was this huge change, but we're in the same house, we've got the same dogs, they're at the same school, you know, the school, yes, that changed, but it's day to day, it becomes a routine. Christmas still happens, birthdays still happen, you know, the all the traditions that the girls and I had always done, I maintained. And so then there it felt like there was a sense of normality undercurrent throughout it all. And I felt that was really important. That even though on the surface we all might be spinning out of control, there was this anchor that would just flowed with us.\n\nKate Daly 25:40\n\nI think it's so important. I mean, I I was listening when you were saying, you know, they were moving schools. Mine were very small when I went through this, and I can remember my nanny handing in his notice at the same time that we were moving house as a consequence of the divorce into a, you know, we're going from our nice, lovely house that we'd all shared to being in a kind of a small house and the nanny wasn't coming with us. That to me at the time felt like the worst thing that could ever, ever happen. I mean, I felt utterly bereft at this. And what I learned through that was actually, yeah, it was tough. But at the same time, the consistency is you. We are the consistency. And the consistency of love and showing up with love, even when those things that you can't control are happening all around you, whether, you know, nanny for me, schools for you, might be area, could be jobs, could be friendship groups, you know, whatever it is where we're all feeling totally distressed that our kids haven't got that consistency, it's us showing up with love and being the parent we've all always been. That's what actually keeps them on healthy, straight and narrow rather than anything else. And I sometimes worry, because you know, we talk about this a lot in the work that I do with couples where we're trying to keep everything the same and people are tearing their hair out about we can't move here, we can't do this, we can't change anything, you know, we the the dog has to follow the kids, we've got to have the gerbils here, there, and everything. You know, it's and it's it's all valid stuff. But it's us showing up with that love that really will protect them. So if you're in that position where you're being forced to change things and you don't want to, I would just say to people, don't give up because you showing up in your consistent way is the thing that will make the difference to the kids absolutely and totally. And I was just thinking of that when you were saying. So I was thinking about the my own desperately trying to cling on to something that's going to stay the same in a sea of everything else changing. It's it's frightening stuff, isn't it? It really is.\n\nBuzzy Randall 27:42\n\nIt is. And I think I think people do really, you know, like you said, who where's the gerbil going to go? You you fixate on something really small that isn't important as the most important thing ever. And and I think it's important that you have those things, but also it's easy to look back and say, they're not so important. But actually, what is important, like you said, is is you as a parent just being a parent and being real. Like I think a lot of people said to me, Oh, well, don't show your emotions in front of the girls and don't cry in front of the girls, and the whole concept of dignity must maintain your dignity. And I mean, I've I pretty much hung my coat of dignity up when I gave birth. So I'm I don't know when I picked it back up again. I don't think I did. And and I was like, this is the reality of the breakdown of the marriage, and that is that I will cry and I will have a bad day, and I will, you know, get upset about something really silly or or cry at an advert. That's the reality. I'm being me. This is what it feels like for me, and I'm not gonna hide that from you. I'm not gonna burden you with it, but I'm not gonna hide it from you because this is the reality. This is what being a woman is, and this is the consequence of the decisions that I made, but we will get through it.\n\nKate Daly 29:11\n\nAnd I think that's what kids need. They don't need you to be perfect, they need to see you trying hard, doing the best, regrouping, going again, and they need to know that that resilience, that ability to keep going is the thing that that sets you apart, not that you've got everything under control or that it's all perfect. I mean, you you were saying just then, it doesn't feel like it was a terribly long time ago when all of this happened, but yet here you are talking about it in the past with a life that you've reconstructed um and a successful career. How did you discover or how did you rediscover what you wanted? Um and now we're sort of looking at something different, having had to give up the hopes and dreams that you had had, how did you get to that point where you could really spend the time to rediscover to redirect your life? What happened?\n\nBuzzy Randall 30:11\n\nWell, I think it's a work in progress. Um, and I'm still working things out. I mean, ultimately, uh it's given me the space to really reflect on, and this sounds corny, but my own self-identity, like who actually am I? What do I like in life? What do I want in life? Because I got married quite young and I had children quite young. And my future, like I said, I'd mapped it out with my husband. I that was it. I was like, well, I'm gonna grow old here. I'm gonna do, you know, this is it. I'm I've I've spent 18 years building this future. And so when you're forced to look at it and change it, you then realize I realized I didn't really know anything about what I wanted or who I was or what my hopes and dreams were, or what actually what I really liked doing. And that that whole in the last two years I've really learned that about myself. And and that's why I went back to education and did the masters, and I've done a beekeeping course, and I've done lots of cooking again, and it's a it is it's ever evolving. So it's not there wasn't one, I suppose one thing was the divorce and separation forced me to actually look in the mirror at myself. And I had to make those decisions for me. They weren't decisions that were made by my ex-husband or my ex-husband's family, or collectively, they were my decisions to make for myself. And actually, that's quite scary.\n\nKate Daly 31:52\n\nIt's quite scary, it's quite a big thing as well. And we've sort of brushed over it almost in a sentence, haven't we? But that's quite a massive deal. Because if you've been socialized to make collaborative decisions, and that's part of being in a relationship, and we're told that's you know what we do, and of course that's what you do if you're in a relationship. But to suddenly then be the mistress of all of your own decisions, that's a that's a big shift and a big change, isn't it?\n\nBuzzy Randall 32:17\n\nYeah, and I think divorce really can knock your confidence. Doesn't matter what side of the divorce you're on, whether you're the man or the woman, the the the one the wrong or the one the right, it if there is that, it doesn't matter, you're gonna be affected, your confidence is gonna be knocked, it's gonna be painful, whatever. And to then to be in that scary place without much confidence, you realize a lot about yourself. Yeah.\n\nKate Daly 32:47\n\nIn just a moment, Buzzy, I'm going to ask you to share some advice on getting started with the divorce process and some advice about imagining how you would fulfill the next bit of your life and how you start the next chapter. But just before I ask you those sort of two critical questions, if this episode has given you a bit of clarity or comfort, or just a tip that's made things feel a little bit more manageable, make sure to follow the divorce podcast on your favorite podcast app. Each week we're here with expert advice and real support to help you through your separation one step at a time. So, Buzzy, thinking back uh to the beginning of your separation, what are the things that you'd tell yourself about kicking off that process? How would you go? What would you say to somebody who's right at the beginning?\n\nBuzzy Randall 33:34\n\nI think to breathe, which sounds stupid, but I felt that there was no, that I was suffocating, that I was, there was no oxygen in the room, and that everywhere I went sucked the breath out of me, whether it was a conversation with the lawyer or conversations with my family or conversations with my children, or even turning up at the school gates, I was like, oh, this is, and I think actually take a breath, pause, think about the what the next step is is in, okay, I'm gonna go to the school gates and I'm gonna face the mums, or I need to get a lawyer. How do I go about doing it? You know, there is there is panic at every at every corner, but there needn't be. If you just pause, take a breath, and try and stay calm, then you will make better decisions for yourself. And like everything, talk to people because people are a wealth of knowledge. That's how I had found my divorced mental friend. That's how the mums at the school gates will pick me up. It was talking to people and just saying, what advice can you give me? Or do you know a good lawyer? Or what do I do now? And people are more than willing to give their opinion, I can tell you.\n\nKate Daly 35:04\n\nYeah. Shortage of opinions, absolutely. And then just finally, for someone who perhaps can't yet imagine how they're gonna fulfill the next chapter. So let's say they've started it and they're kind of bordering on where you've been more recently. Um, they can't really get to grits with the next chapter. What would you say to them? So they've bereft because they've lost how they thought things were gonna pan out. How do you go about creating that next chapter for yourself?\n\nBuzzy Randall 35:31\n\nWell, I think, and I'm still in the process of doing that, it's about what feels right. And I've done quite a few job interviews, and and then I'm like, this doesn't feel right for me, actually. It feels right on paper, but the reality is something just like listen to your gut. And I was very lucky, and right at the beginning of my career, I knew that I wanted to go into a career of cooking, creativity, and hospitality. I knew that that was the thing that excited me when I woke up in the morning. And I've returned to that place of like, okay, what is it that is gonna fill me with excitement and joy, and I'm gonna be able to give my all, not okay, what's gonna give me the biggest salary because I'm in complete panic about my finances, or what is gonna give me the biggest sense of ego because I feel like I've got no self-confidence or no ego as a result of what's happened. It's about listening to your gut and saying, okay, actually, what is gonna be right for me, not what's right for my children, not what's right for my dogs or my house or my finances, what's right for me, for me feeling good about myself.\n\nKate Daly 36:47\n\nIt's so interesting. So I'm what I'm taking away from this is that personal growth and resilience that comes after a split. And we did a survey recently as Amicable, and we found something really similar as well. One in four people actually reported that's exactly what you've described now, that sense of feeling that personal growth by focusing on what is right for me. So it's seeing it as an opportunity to reconnect with yourself and understand a bit more about yourself. So I think that's such a positive note to end on. I know if you're listening to this and you're at the beginning of it or in the middle of it, you know, you might not be feeling as optimistic as Buzzy and I talking about it. But there is hope and there is light at the end of the tunnel, and there is an opportunity to look deep inside yourself and find that personal growth and resilience after a split. So, Buzzy, I can only thank you tremendously for sharing your growth story with us today. It's been absolutely amazing. Where can people find out more information about you?\n\nBuzzy Randall 37:53\n\nWell, I have my own podcast, as you've been a guest on with Amicable. So you can listen to um our stories, The Big D with Ate and Buzzy, which is actually morphing into the big D presents, uh, where we'll have lots of new guests and um a whole new season where we have um a similar just a conversation about divorce and about breakups. And I mean, this is where Amicable is so amazing, is that it's not, it doesn't all have to be hideous. It can be done nicely and calmly. And and that's why I loved our conversation with you. Um so anyone could listen to that episode either with Amicable or on the big D. I'm on Instagram and yeah. Happiness.\n\nKate Daly 38:38\n\nAnd don't forget, for separation and co-parenting support, you can visit amicable.co.uk where you can explore our resources or book a free advice consultation. You can find me on LinkedIn and Instagram, and you can hear about new podcast episodes by subscribing for updates and visiting thedivorsepodcast.com or find us on your favourite listening platform. Now we'd love to know how we can help further, so please share questions on divorce separation and co-parenting with us at hello at amicable.co.uk, as we're always looking for ideas for new episodes, and they very well might just point us in a new direction that we haven't yet covered. So please do that. You can also join our subscription platform called amicable apace, and there you can find our community forum, which is a safe place to ask anything at all as you go through separating or co-parenting. Members get free access to our monthly Q&A webinars with amicable's divorce specialists, and you can ask questions in real time on that platform. The link to sign up is going to be in the episode description, so please go there for further information. Buzzy, what a joy it's been. Thank you ever so much for joining me, and thank you everybody for listening. Thanks, Kate.","VideoLink":"https:\/\/thedivorcepodcast.buzzsprout.com\/182833\/episodes\/19692272-how-to-be-a-role-model-for-your-children-through-divorce","Title":"How to be a role model for your children through divorce","EpisodeSlug":"role-model-for-children-through-divorce","LastModifiedDate":"2026-08-26T08:58:39.000Z","CategorySlug":"separation-stories","Category":"Separation stories","EpisodeUrl":"\/episode\/role-model-for-children-through-divorce","CreatedOn":"2026-08-26","ReleaseDate":"2026-08-26T06:00:00.000Z","Content":"What do you show your children when you decide your marriage has to end?\nKate is joined by [Buzzy Randall](https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/buzzyrandall\/), a hospitality consultant, to talk about how she chose to model strength, honesty and self-worth for her daughters throughout her divorce.\n\nWe talk about:\n\n- Why being a role model to your children throughout your relationship and separation matters\n- Showing up honestly for your kids, including the moments you don't have it all together\n- The shame and stigma that can surround divorce, especially when infidelity's involved\n- Why having someone else who's been through something similar can make all the difference\n- Rebuilding your self-identity, confidence and ability to make decisions for yourself\n\n\u26a0\ufe0f **Trigger warning:** this episode touches on infidelity and the emotional impact of divorce and separation.\n\nThis episode is for anyone thinking about what their separation is teaching their children.\u00a0\n\nYou're not alone in this \u2013 if this episode resonated, share it with someone who might need it right now.\n## Meet Buzzy Randall\n\n[Buzzy](https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/buzzyrandall\/) is a hospitality consultant, entrepreneur, classically trained chef, and currently a Masters Psychology student at the University of Leicester. With more than twenty years' experience in hospitality, including senior creative and operational roles within luxury hotels and events, she has built a career around creating meaningful experiences and supporting people to thrive.\nFollowing her own experience of divorce after an eighteen-year marriage, Buzzy became passionate about conversations around separation, resilience, identity and rebuilding life after significant change. Through her writing, podcasting and studies in psychology and counselling, she explores how people navigate loss, rediscover themselves, and create fulfilling new chapters.\n\nTo hear more from Buzzy [follow her on Instagram](https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/buzzyrandall\/) and [listen to her podcast _The Big D_](https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/gb\/podcast\/thebigd-with-ateh-and-buzzy\/id1796434433).\n## More divorce resources\n\n### **Need expert help right now?**\n\nBook a [free 15-minute consultation](https:\/\/meetings.amicable.io\/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep209_role_model_buzzy_randall&utm_content=episode_description) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. Or explore our [Separating with Children Service](https:\/\/amicable.io\/separating-with-children-service?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep209_role_model_buzzy_randall&utm_content=episode_description) \u2013 a 90-minute joint session with a Co-parenting Specialist tailored to your family\u2019s needs.\n\n### **Want ongoing support as you rebuild after separation?**\n\nJoin [amicable space](https:\/\/amicable.space\/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep209_role_model_buzzy_randall&utm_content=episode_description) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars and articles on co-parenting and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https:\/\/amicable.space\/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep209_role_model_buzzy_randall&utm_content=episode_description).\n\nKate\u2019s book [amicable divorce](https:\/\/amicable.io\/amicable-divorce-book?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep209_role_model_buzzy_randall&utm_content=episode_description) includes dedicated chapters on co-parenting, with practical guidance on supporting your children's wellbeing, talking to them in age-appropriate ways and building a cooperative co-parenting relationship that reduces conflict. [Find it on Amazon](https:\/\/www.amazon.co.uk\/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting\/dp\/180522610X) today.\n\n### **Got a question for a future episode?**\n\nShare your thoughts at [press@amicable.co.uk](mailto:press@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/amicable_world\/).\n","ApplePodcasts":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/gb\/podcast\/how-to-be-a-role-model-for-your-children-through-divorce\/id1403271644?i=1000785954436","CategoryUrl":"\/category\/separation-stories","Featured":true,"YoutubeMusic":"https:\/\/music.youtube.com\/watch?v=i8JINSYuuYw&si=Nz5Ep8L4123YQ90_","EpisodeNumber":209,"id":"recFAiGAqphpQ95Wd"},{"Spotify":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/episode\/1LmVsgVMMlK0OhZZucanlU?si=5sJDmb2JQmao0phR6TsAyw","Excerpt":"If you've seen the headlines about 'divorce rings' and wondered whether they're a passing trend or something more meaningful, this episode is for you.","Duration":10,"CustomSlug":"in-brief-divorce-rings","Transcript":"Kate Daly 0:00\nDivorce rings aren't necessarily about the jewellery. They're more about identity, independence, and marking a new chapter. And humans have always used objects and rituals to mark big life changes. So what's interesting here is that people are actually creating their own rituals around separation and divorce. Welcome to the Divorce Podcast, where we explore relationships, divorce, separation, and parenting apart. This episode is part of our mini-series where we answer your questions, discuss current news events, and share practical bite-sized tips. I'm your host, Kate Daly, the relationship counsellor, divorce specialist and co-founder of Amicable, the online legal service for separating couples. In this in-brief episode, we're talking today about divorce rings. Are they a trend or is there something more meaningful behind this piece of jewelry? So what's the story? Well, I've been quoted in a BBC article about the rise of divorce rings. I've also been talking on the radio today about what they mean and whether they're a trend or not, or whether there's something a bit more long term. So what is a divorce ring? Well, it's usually either a ring people buy or it's the redesign of an old wedding or engagement ring, and it's meant to symbolize the end of the marriage. Sometimes it's that people want to take their jewellery and repurpose it totally. So you might actually, although we're calling them divorce rings, it might be a divorce necklace or a divorce earring set. So there's a whole bunch of different ways, but essentially what people are doing is taking the end of the marriage and creating a ritual or a symbol around it. And I think it's much deeper than it being just about a piece of jewelry. Divorce rings aren't necessarily about the jewellery, they're more about identity, independence, and marking a new chapter. And humans have always used objects and rituals to mark big life changes. So what's interesting here is that people are actually creating their own rituals around separation and divorce. And I think what this trend really signifies is that more people are prepared to talk about something that's deeply personal and that perhaps in the past has been a source of shame or stigma. But now things are changing and people are much more open and prepared to talk about what comes next. And I guess a ring can look like a really small thing, but after a divorce, it can carry real meaning. For some people, it marks the point at which they start to make decisions about themselves or for themselves again. And that's not about being bitter about your ex or wearing the ring on your middle finger as a symbol of kind of stuff you. It's about recognizing change and making a choice about what comes next. Now we all know that when a relationship ends, everything feels like it's up in the air. Your home, your money, your children, your identity, future plans, everything is affected. And a divorce ring can be one of the first visual outward signs that someone is making those decisions for themselves again, emotionally and financially. It means really that for some of us, we are actually back in control and signalling to the world that we're back in control. And that's super important. There has been lots of criticism, people saying, oh, it's just a flash in the pan, a one-off trend, or it's a bit indulgent spending money on yourself and on jewelry. But I get it, it can feel like that. But I think we should be less inclined to judge. I don't think people are doing it to be self-indulgent. I think people are doing it to recognize that one chapter has ended and a new chapter has started. And one of the things I kept coming back to when I was asked today on the radio was this idea that it's not about being bitter. You know, having an amicable divorce doesn't mean that you haven't felt the pain or the hurt. It doesn't mean that you've glossed over things or that, you know, you haven't taken this whole thing seriously. Having an amicable divorce is the difference between feeling genuinely amicable, which might take months or years, if ever, to come, and behaving in an amicable way. So sometimes those behaviors come first. And what I mean by that is sometimes we have to almost fake it till we make it in the world of amicable divorces. We might have to behave in a certain way that we don't necessarily feel deep in our hearts, but we know if we want our children to thrive after a divorce or separation, it's in their best interest that we behave in a certain way. And sometimes the ritual of behaving in that way over a period of time can help to move you on psychologically. So, yes, it can be really tricky, and yes, it can end very much with feelings of sadness and everything else, but that doesn't preclude you from having an amicable divorce. At amicable, we want to change how people navigate relationships, particularly when they're starting them or ending them. So whether that's getting together when you're cohabiting for the first time or prenups, or whether it's parenting after separation and big conversations that you need to have with your ex. The common thread here is that we try and do these with kindness, clarity, and less conflict. And if it helps to mark the end of a relationship and to put to bed that phase of your life and to start a new chapter and a divorce ring is a way of doing that, then I'm all for it. I don't want to judge everyone's divorce is different, but I do think there's an opportunity to actually make a symbol because ultimately the way that the process works now, we don't have that symbolism anymore in the divorce process. You'll just get an email at the end of an administrative process from the government to say that your divorce is finalized. And when that lands in your inbox alongside the email from school about sports day or end-of-term arrangements, or it gets mixed in with your work emails about deadlines and presentations and everything else, it can feel really anticlimactical. And you want to mark this end of a relationship. And just because the relationship has ended, it doesn't mean the relationship was bad. Relationships end for all kinds of reasons. So marking the end of it doesn't mean you have to regret the relationship, and very often people don't, particularly if they've got children. So I think having a way of symbolizing the end, whether that's through a piece of jewelry or a ritual that you make or whatever it is, I think that can be really important in helping you process the change that you're going through and mark the transition from one relationship to the next. So, like I say, it's not really about the ring. This is about people finding a way to mark a change, to reclaim choice and to move forward with some clarity. And I think that's what the divorce rings are all about. Now, with my personal journey, I didn't repurpose my jewelry and I didn't create a divorce ring. What I did was to sell my ring because I moved into a house, I had to downsize like most people do. The house was in a terrible state. And so I used my ring to furnish my house and to do it up. So every time I looked at the newly painted walls or the curtains or the cushions, all of which I'd chosen for myself without any compromise because my kids were very little, it was a really lovely feeling. I knew that I'd repurpose that ring to make a home for me and the children moving forward. So that was another way of actually symbolizing the end and ritualizing the end of a relationship and the moving on to the next thing. So however you choose to acknowledge the end of the relationship, whether it's with divorce rings or whether it's with another piece of jewellery or another act, however you do it, it's really important just to take the time to breathe, to acknowledge what's come before, to acknowledge where you are and to look forward with some hope. I hope you've enjoyed this conversation about divorce rings. Check us out on socials where we talk more about this phenomenon. For separation and co-parenting support, you can visit amicable.co.uk where you can explore our resources or book a free consultation. You can find me on Insta and LinkedIn. You can hear about new podcast episodes by subscribing for updates and visiting thedivorsepodcast.com, or of course, you can find us on your favourite listening platforms. Now don't forget, we'd love to help further and we'd love to know any questions or ideas for new episodes. So please share those at hello at amicable.co.uk. One final reminder: you can join our subscription platform, which is Amicable Space, where you'll find our community forum, a safe place to ask anything as you go through separation, divorce, or co parenting. Members get access to our monthly QA webinars with Amicable Divorce Specialists, where you can ask questions in real time. The link to sign up is in the episode description. Thank you very much for listening, and I'll see you again soon.","VideoLink":"https:\/\/thedivorcepodcast.buzzsprout.com\/182833\/episodes\/19657785-in-brief-what-s-a-divorce-ring","Title":"In brief: what\u2019s a divorce ring?","EpisodeSlug":"in-brief-divorce-rings","LastModifiedDate":"2026-08-19T09:19:23.000Z","CategorySlug":"life-after-divorce","Category":"Life after divorce","EpisodeUrl":"\/episode\/in-brief-divorce-rings","CreatedOn":"2026-08-19","ReleaseDate":"2026-08-19T06:00:00.000Z","Content":"If you've seen the headlines about 'divorce rings' and wondered whether they're a passing trend or something more meaningful, this episode is for you.\n\nIn this in-brief episode, Kate unpacks what's really behind the rise of divorce rings \u2013 and why they're about a lot more than jewellery.\n\nIn this episode, we cover:\n\n- What a divorce ring actually is\n- How reclaiming choice and identity plays into the trend\n- The difference between behaving amicably and feeling amicable, and why that gap is completely normal\n- Kate's own way of marking the end of her marriage\n\nThis episode is for anyone going through separation or divorce who's looking for their own way to mark this chapter, and for anyone curious about why this trend is getting so much attention.\n\n## More divorce resources\n\n### **Feeling ready to take practical steps forward?**\n\nBook a [free 15-minute consultation](https:\/\/meetings.amicable.io\/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep208_divorce_rings&utm_content=episode_description) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation.\n\n### **Want ongoing support as you rebuild after separation?**\n\nJoin [amicable space](https:\/\/amicable.space\/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep208_divorce_rings&utm_content=episode_description) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars and articles on emotional wellbeing and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https:\/\/amicable.space\/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep208_divorce_rings&utm_content=episode_description).\n\nKate\u2019s book [amicable divorce](https:\/\/amicable.io\/amicable-divorce-book?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep208_divorce_rings&utm_content=episode_description) includes dedicated chapters on emotional readiness and timing, navigating separation with kindness and rebuilding your identity and moving forward with confidence. [Find it on Amazon](https:\/\/www.amazon.co.uk\/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting\/dp\/180522610X) today.\n\n### **Got a question for a future episode?**\n\nShare your thoughts at [press@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/amicable_world\/).\n","ApplePodcasts":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/gb\/podcast\/in-brief-whats-a-divorce-ring\/id1403271644?i=1000784240121","CategoryUrl":"\/category\/life-after-divorce","Featured":true,"YoutubeMusic":"https:\/\/music.youtube.com\/watch?v=6pOLxQsUC-8&si=tPtvn5VkGokLdKyb","EpisodeNumber":208,"id":"recnOwGHOt60SHeqF"},{"Spotify":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/episode\/5lEijbsyPD614otRFPgNvb?si=jPN6q898Rw2rlu4Fq1338A","Guests":[{"id":"reckkXenrAHn2rALa","Image":[{"id":"attg62FQBmC5Up9Qr","width":1365,"height":2048,"url":"https:\/\/v5.airtableusercontent.com\/v3\/u\/56\/56\/1788019200000\/qUyvoHRcm9lREDygiQEIzg\/K64JhRcXxvkx1cXC5ov09s72FCvjNbxj0Na7fPzkiaJlrh7_gsZ-DQIcNQ_E617PyfHNacSb2XOO46sHv-ylrKA3LreUve9fDB7Z7aSrKr0Xi70z4Xcpx0baF685voS5Brn2hIt0V-llAyqptFmzrdFY2QjAllmqB1y6ZkRNeJ4\/Y5OkbgYbdSTXk-jtQRxBwStuKTYaZUkGqCDcA_9yKxA","filename":"image (8).jpg","size":350044,"type":"image\/jpeg","thumbnails":{"small":{"url":"https:\/\/v5.airtableusercontent.com\/v3\/u\/56\/56\/1788019200000\/hWuC8bdvXP8-zG8SDUqUnA\/EV4aMMBlgpMbQcZZiT_HY-DG2FVVgG6sbPaIjhOBAEsV56zGHOb9EZ34dXEbOackK8Jxd8cKVJTLgVAByjQWV3WekA_Kk7N74a1dEr-fbXWOQjYwia_aidSMsCMBuFH3MZ-4e0eRjFaQjjo4GmhjNA\/FKgdlcB-aAswxooUOl_MTbyWXyIxaTuiYcb18GAUJY4","width":24,"height":36},"large":{"url":"https:\/\/v5.airtableusercontent.com\/v3\/u\/56\/56\/1788019200000\/LxcgQ6K5Cxo2FI5e-AE4kw\/XimuRWMi79qBchAg2ifkb-sEMQ7B9kiiiEaCP6cByCTsbTNhfhnq1XuUg5PQBg5KZdNqguLP887CyhKUeTqv-gYz60yPc_BgpAUrCb9S1hdkCU4Mn7BhOsuPbUWYYUm9ncquCBR5PCNQvtHrYv27ag\/P5jOGMbu3gwsj9ZV3mtUzs39T_JEPQB7iJKWrv5BDOc","width":512,"height":768},"full":{"url":"https:\/\/v5.airtableusercontent.com\/v3\/u\/56\/56\/1788019200000\/HjFMksox3TT1uyIAJNVzmQ\/GOoCmu2CtKNd7_PdlcoVXXR1lBIpUW7lfZ62D5hrgez_bcNqo7I8GKexwZmY0ZVbYyivkzGwKV5xRfiTr8VLjd2wVo9gOwsnUdfeR31cHyJCZw7onBJd4lQsAwmHI4tI9vvNrWrSik0Tu1B10LXVxQ\/S0cxDcGskxiGpMTzSm10sq9kcFxi36p3mdnnNFaLiy0","width":1365,"height":2048}}}],"FullName":"Jess Robinson","Episodes 2":["rec3Y1LpiUBu4MHBo"],"Job":"Multi-award-winning comedy impressionist"}],"Excerpt":"What happens when you finally stop ignoring your gut - and discover that everything you went through was leading you somewhere better?","Duration":37,"CustomSlug":"jess-robinson-divorce-dating-blended-family","Transcript":"Jess Robinson 0:00\nI texted a friend of mine who had been through a divorce and I just said, I just feel like I'll never be happy again. I don't know how I'll ever be happy again. And he said, You will. I promise you, you will. And you, I could not believe it at the time. I honestly couldn't. Things were so dark. I was so down in the weeds. But if this is happening to you, it's possible and you will be happy again. And you've just got to keep putting one foot in front of the other, just small steps, one day at a time, one hour at a time.\n\nKate Daly 0:37\nWelcome to the Divorce Podcast, where we explore all aspects of ending relationships, separation, and parenting apart. If your marriage or partnership has ended, or you have friends and family who are separating, this podcast is for you. I'm Kate Daly, a relationship counsellor, divorce specialist, and co-founder of Amicable, the online legal service separating couples. In each episode, we look at relationships and separation from different angles, including the emotional, legal, and social. I'm joined by experts and special guests who share their own unique stories, experience, and tips with the goal of helping people end relationships in a kinder and better way. What happens when you finally stop ignoring your gut? And what does life look like on the other side? Today I'm joined by Jess Robinson, multi-award-winning comedy impressionist, to hear her honest story of separation, dating again, and finding unexpected happiness as a step up. We talk about shame, new beginnings, and why all roads really do lead to here. A quick heads up about this episode. It contains some adult themes, so please take care of yourself whilst listening. If you loved this episode, then please subscribe and rate us on your preferred listening platform. Welcome, Jess. Thank you so much. It's super lovely to have you on the show. Thanks ever so much for joining us. Let's start then with a bit about your story. So, at the beginning, how did you meet your ex-partner? Take us back to when the marriage ended. What was that period like for you?\n\nJess Robinson 2:19\nSo we met in a sort of a comedy sketch group, and I thought that he was beautiful and very, very funny and silly, and I just loved his sense of humor. And I felt like we had a lot in common. And then over about eight years in all, we were together, but only married for the last sort of 18 months of that. We had a house together, we didn't have any kids. But actually, when I spoke to my therapist about it once the relationship was sort of ending, my therapist said, When was the first time you really, if you look inside yourself and you're really honest, what is the first time you knew that it wasn't quite right? And actually, it was very, very, very early on, very soon after I met him. I knew in my heart of hearts that something was not quite right, but I ignored it because I thought that I was for some reason it was a limitation. It was something to do with me. It was my problem. Why, you know, I thought I was too traditional, too prudish, too this, too that, too vanilla. And I wanted to be more exciting and I wanted to be more wild and cool. But actually, I am quite traditional. And so I really shut a huge piece of myself away and didn't give it any credence, I guess, because I thought, yeah, so I changed myself really and my values because I just loved this guy so much. And I thought he was so brilliant, so exciting, so wonderful. And I think he also felt probably that he had to change himself to be with me and meet me in the middle of it. But that was much easier said than done for him. So what ended up happening was it turned out that there were a lot of secrets and a lot of things that came out after the marriage. And actually, even before I actually walked down the aisle, I remember looking out of my kitchen window at the garden and thinking, I don't know if I can do this forever. But even then, the hope is so strong, and you just sort of I ended up just ignoring the red flags, the warning signals. Yeah. The warning signals, yeah, because I just, this guy in every other way was so brilliant. And all our friends who didn't know anything that was going on because I kept it all very secret myself, they all just said, Oh, you're so funny together, you're so great together. And so it was, I felt like I'd be disappointing absolutely everyone, not just him or me or our parents or whatever. So it just kept going and going until something happened or was said that I I couldn't ignore. And actually, it was such a relief in the end.\n\nKate Daly 5:16\nIt's so interesting when you say that because it's it's it's a brave thing to say, I think, that on some level you knew quite early on, and even before you got married. But I wonder whether that's not the truth for quite a lot of people, and just some of us aren't very good at admitting that. But it just really resonates that you say, I think on some level I knew.\n\nJess Robinson 5:39\nYeah, I didn't at the time, and I would not have admitted it at the time. I don't think I, but I think it's really important to have a little bit try and have a bit of accountability to not just be a victim. Because in being accountable, it actually, although it's gnarly and painful to look at, it also ends up giving you a bit of strength. Does that make sense?\n\nKate Daly 6:04\nYeah, it does, because it's that line, isn't it? Between I might know that everything isn't perfect, but where does that line of perfectionism meet? This is good enough, it's got enough legs that it might well last and we'll work at it. And that's the blurry bit in the middle, isn't it? So, you know, I don't suppose very many people go into a marriage thinking this is absolutely as perfect as ever I have. Absolutely, I'm 100% no doubt. Maybe they do. I don't know, maybe I should speak for other people. But it just strikes me that everybody must at some point it must cross their mind to question. And where does questioning become a genuine red flag or doubt that you ignore versus something you say, okay, this is this has got enough legs to give this a go and to see where we get to, kind of thing. And I just, it's so hard to find that line. It's interesting the way you describe it.\n\nJess Robinson 6:59\nYeah, I think I don't know who taught me, maybe my mum, maybe just from looking at other people's relationships, I knew that compromise was really important. But I think possibly I compromised myself a bit too much. I was a bit too much of a people, I'm a recovering people pleaser anyway. And it was way I was not giving enough weight to the stuff that wasn't right and giving maybe too much weight to the absolute fun, the laughter, all of the good bits, where I thought I'm never gonna meet someone else who makes me laugh like this, you know? Yeah.\n\nKate Daly 7:35\nAnd I think it's fascinating as well that you talk about just that sense of the things that you were compromising on that actually turned out to be pretty significant values? What kind of things were that important that you were prepared to say, oh, that's fine, because you were together for a while before you married. So, how did you cross from being not married to married? And did the act of being married focus something, which ultimately ended the relationship? Because you do hear about this quite a lot, don't you? People will live together for a long time, they'll marry, and then then they'll split after the marriage.\n\nJess Robinson 8:11\nSo once we got married, there was a death of someone very close to him and his family. And um, trying to choose my words carefully, but basically, again, I I found myself there was some behavior from him, and what I ended up doing was convincing myself again, this is because of grief. Uh, he's not thinking straight. And when I did finally confide in someone, when the words came out and I heard them as if for the first time, I just knew, oh my gosh, this is not tenable. This is absolutely not tenable for me.\n\nKate Daly 8:53\nThat's interesting, isn't it? That act of saying it out loud, of of repeating it as a narrative, actually sort of almost shocks you out of a stupor you're in when you're in a relationship with somebody and gets you to focus and say, if I was hearing that from somebody else, that would be a big red flag or a big warning bell.\n\nJess Robinson 9:11\nYeah. And I had always said, you know, with my friends' relationships or people on telly or whatever, I wouldn't put up with that. I would never put up with that. Also, I wasn't telling anybody. I just, I just pretended that that part of my life was sorted. Yeah. So so it took a lot for me to, and I was amazed at myself. I'm still amazed at myself that I ignored so much, willfully ignored so much.\n\nKate Daly 9:38\nBut I think that's a very human thing, isn't it? We all ignore things when it doesn't fit with our kind of narrative of where we are in life and what we're doing. So tell me a little bit about the the breakup. I don't mean the details of why you broke up, but what kind of divorce did you have?\n\nJess Robinson 9:54\nHow did you go about that? We were on a sort of a make or break holiday. And he finally said, I'm gonna say what he said, because it was the real turning point. He said, I don't find you sexually attractive, and I never have. Oh wow. And that was a terrible thing to hear, but I also felt like, thank God, that's what I needed to hear. And I called my sister and I said, Can I come home now? I told her, she was like, Yes, get on a plane. And so I needed to hear something. I don't know if he even meant it to sound so harsh. I think he was just being trying to be honest or something. I don't know. But that was what I needed to hear for me to just get on the plane. My mum and dad picked me up from the airport. I went back to theirs, I had a cry, and the next day I started filling in my divorce. It so happened that my big sister, while I was doing this, knocked on the door and my mum opened it and she had all teary eyes, and she had just left her husband as well. So wow. Yeah, mum consumed about half a bottle of brandy that night. Feeling for your mum in that scenario rather wrongly, maybe. But and dad was just being, you know, shocked and very good humoured about it all. And I felt very, very lucky that I had a family that I could talk to. But then obviously, then all of these things came out and the stuff that I had been hiding. And everybody was shocked and surprised and amused and horrified. And it just all happened very fast. I I sent off the divorce. I went and got a a black fur coat, fake fur coat, so I looked like a divorce, a widow. I don't know what I was doing. I made some very strange decisions. You're playing the punt. Yeah. I think I went on guardian soulmates almost a week later, just like I must fix this immediately. So, yes, it was it was quite bonkers, and and I moved pretty fast. But once I had made the decision, I was ready. And it felt like a huge relief. There's a tiny voice in me when he said that, and I knew that I could come home and leave. A little voice in me said, Yes, this is what I've always wanted, as though a dream had just come true.\n\nKate Daly 12:20\nSo you got that sense of relief, that sense of being able to move on, of living a true and authentic life, all of that kind of stuff. Yeah. It must be kind of weird then, if when people say, Oh, I'm so sorry, when you know, when you're actually not feeling sorry, you're feeling there's a sense of relief.\n\nJess Robinson 12:37\nYes. The thing that I felt the most actually, my biggest, biggest overwhelming feeling was shame.\n\nKate Daly 12:45\nOh, okay.\n\nJess Robinson 12:46\nBecause I felt I had betrayed myself so much. And I had, there were so many people saying, Why didn't you say? Why didn't you tell us? We would have said, you know. And I just had such shame that I was seen as this strong person who always said, I wouldn't do that. I'd never take that. And I was doing it all along, taking it all along, and I felt very, very stupid.\n\nKate Daly 13:12\nOh, that's interesting. That's a harsh thing to say about yourself, isn't it? I felt very, very stupid. What drives that? Why do we feel like that as strong, confident women? Why do we still feel a sense of shame?\n\nJess Robinson 13:24\nI felt shame because I thought I'd wasted everybody's time. My dad, we we did the cheapest wedding we possibly could, but it was still, you know, \u00a38,000 at the time. And that was my dad's money. And, you know, when I knew and admitted that even before I got married, there was a tiny bit of me that knew it wasn't right. I felt accountable for that, I guess. And um, I just felt like I'd wasted time, I'd wasted people's goodwill. I'd I'd just been stupid. And I'm going to ask you whether you still feel that now. I'm conflicted. I want to say no, I don't. But I think if I'm being kind to myself, which I think I must be, I think the the idea and the hope and the sort of the idea of of a filmic sort of romance made me a bit blind. I don't know if that makes any sense. But um yeah, wildly hoping, willfully ignoring I don't know.\n\nKate Daly 14:29\nBut I guess my view feeling of it is is more that all roads lead to here. And maybe when you come on to tell us your the next part of your story, I can ask you that question again then. Because we can only get to the paths that we eventually find by treading the ones that come before that, can't we? So without anything that happened before, you wouldn't be here now with your life as the way it is now, and the incredibly successful career and personal life and everything else. So let's go back a step then and tell us. So you went through you you got your divorce to organized. It sounds like you were terribly organized and you had the presence of mind and the support to be able to get on with it. And yes, it feels like it was a real like everyone does it differently. There's no right or wrong, but this one feels like a plaster being ripped off, focused on it. You knew this is where you were gonna go now, and off you went. So you come out the other side of divorce.\n\nJess Robinson 15:28\nYes, within about less than two years.\n\nKate Daly 15:31\nOkay, so that's very good going by all accounts with all the people that I talked to and see. Yeah.\n\nJess Robinson 15:37\nYeah, yes, it was it was very, I mean, it wasn't painless, it was horrible, but it was a plaster being ripped off. You're right.\n\nKate Daly 15:45\nIt sounds logistically amicable then. So logistically, it was amicable, you didn't go to court, you got everything sorted, you didn't have children, as you mentioned, so there wasn't the added complication of that. So you come out the other side, and it sounds like you were fairly desperate to replace and uh with a relationship, was it? You said you mentioned guardian soulmates pretty quickly.\n\nJess Robinson 16:10\nOh my gosh, I think I doubled my numbers the next, you know, in the year after that. Because I think also because of what he had said about you know not being sexually attractive, and I think I wanted a point to prove and desirable. And yeah, I had a huge point to prove. Luckily, my numbers weren't that huge before, so we're all right. But I went, I went on so many dates and I moved into a flat on the other side of London and sort of went a bit uh off the rails a little bit. I think I was very, very sad and just trying to put a plaster over a wound which needed actually probably a bit of stitches, if you see what I mean. So I did a lot of yoga, I did a lot of drinking, I wrote a car off from divorce exhaustion. Oh, it was ridiculous. But in the end, I came out the other side. I couldn't have done it without my amazing friends who really did all rally around me. And then, of course, I made a show about it as well, which everybody said, Yes, is that a good idea? Is that a bit too soon to be sharing everything on stage? But it actually was my way of processing it. So I was gonna say, was it a form of therapy then? Lots of comedians who did just say the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Just people had to pay to come and see me do my therapy. And it probably had more lights, it had more impressions in it than others. But yeah, and I was getting stronger, and I had a lot of anger that I had to deal with, and I had to work out sort of where to put those feelings. Suddenly I was so angry towards him, and it's very I and that stayed with me for a few years, but it's got less now, and well, it's not there at all anymore, which is amazing because what I really learned from the whole experience was to always, from now on, never ever ignore my gut feelings, never do that ignoring and be really true to myself. That was a huge lesson.\n\nKate Daly 18:23\nBut it's interesting what you say about it being such an important life lesson. Um, and that the importance of actually understanding how you work and committing to listening to your gut instinct rather than driving it down. I think that's so interesting.\n\nJess Robinson 18:40\nI mean, it's taken another 10 years to practice it and actually speak up for myself, even if I've recognised the feelings.\n\nKate Daly 18:46\nBut yeah, but that's part of the process, isn't it? The first step of any change is to recognize what's going on, then to be able to name it, and then to practice doing the small first step of doing something about it. It takes, it does take a lot of time and a number of years to actually get good at something. So I it sounds like you've been on an amazing journey. What you know, what when you were dating, do you think you were able to practice some of that as well? Was dating about practicing or was it about scratching a niche?\n\nJess Robinson 19:15\nA bit of both. It was seeing what it was like to be on the apps because that wasn't there before. So, and that very the novelty of that wore off extremely quickly. That's exhausting and it is. You met some very weird.\n\nKate Daly 19:30\nIt's a full-time job, I think, isn't it?\n\nJess Robinson 19:32\nTrying to deal with all the messages and the slightest thing. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, overwhelming. It was interesting to meet the different people that I thought this is what you could have won, you know. Maybe I want someone really wealthy, or maybe I want someone who's already got, I don't know, a business. Or maybe I'm, you know, it was interesting to just see who was out there. And very quickly I became jaded and just thought, that's it. I've had enough now. So that's enough. And that's when my friend called me up and said, I've got tickets to a show tonight. My friend Handsome Johnti is playing. Do you want to come along? And I said, handsome not Johnti. He said, Yeah, he's single. I said, nope, I don't want to meet anyone. And my friend said, Well, you get a free dinner. So I said, Okay, I'll come. Okay. Fair enough. And um, and that's when I met my husband, my now husband. Yeah.\n\nKate Daly 20:29\nSo it wasn't a conscious decision that you were ready for a relationship, it was fatigue with just dating and a desire to uh a comfort of being on your own almost.\n\nJess Robinson 20:40\nYes, exactly. I actually knew at that point I I very much was not ready for a relationship. I didn't want one at all. And then I met Johnti. Yeah. So he was also divorced, same sort of time period as me. He had a little boy who had just turned five, I think, when I met him. And I just said, you know, we we just started very slowly. I said, I I can't commit to anything. I can do one date at a time. That's all I can say. And then it sort of turned quite quickly, actually, because there was absolutely no pressure. We didn't want to see anybody else, but we just didn't want to well, I didn't want to say it was anything. I just wanted to spend time with him. Then it was one month. Yeah. Yeah. And then it was one month at a time. And yeah. And by end of 2016, I think, I had a boyfriend. And then I was married by 2019. And this is from both of us had said at the very beginning, never want to get married again. Absolutely not, never doing that again.\n\nKate Daly 21:55\nWow.\n\nJess Robinson 21:56\nYeah.\n\nKate Daly 21:57\nSo from free dinner to boyfriend. To husband in the space of three years, then?\n\nJess Robinson 22:03\nI mean, yes. And again, you know, my friends around me this time I was being very open. And they were all saying, Jess, this is very fast. This is very soon. This is, you know, because I think the relationship with practice husband, as I call him, ended in 20, I want to say 2015. So by the end of 2016, I'd met Jonti. Yeah. So that it does feel very fast, doesn't it? I did a lot of therapy.\n\nKate Daly 22:33\nI was gonna say, when did the therapy pick come in?\n\nJess Robinson 22:35\nAside from obviously bearing all on stage, but I had was having regular therapy once a week from the next day that I came back from that holiday, straight into therapy. That sounds like it was a good decision.\n\nKate Daly 22:50\nIt must have accelerated the healing process.\n\nJess Robinson 22:52\nI think so. But I also think I've supported it maybe. Supported it for sure. And I think even uh uh through 2017, 2018, before Johnti and I got married, I think I was still, there was still healing and working things out to to do. And I know there are still things from Johnti's first marriage, which are still things that are still sort of old wounds or bruises, let's say, that you know, because there are still things that can be slightly triggering or bring up old feelings or things like that for sure.\n\nKate Daly 23:26\nAnd do you think you had a different set of conversations when you were thinking about getting married for a second time than the first?\n\nJess Robinson 23:34\nYeah, I think so. But also when I started getting together with Jonti, I was so focused inward. I was so cautious and careful and really trying to name and look at every single tiny feeling that came up because I was so determined to not do any ignoring or any brushing under the carpet again. So I was really, I was journaling and I was, I mean, probably almost psychotically, just you know, really, and he and he gave me so much space and he was so that I I would, he is the kindest man I have ever met. He's so kind and steady and gentle and gave me so much space to be able to do that.\n\nKate Daly 24:28\nAnd it sounds like you must have mirrored that back, particularly if he's got a child, and so for him, he's making a commitment on behalf of both of them, isn't he? Him and his son. Yeah. Absolutely. I guess what he's mirroring, and you're mirroring back what you both need, which is although it feels very fast, you're doing it at your own pace.\n\nJess Robinson 24:50\nYes, it did feel like that. There was a lot of such a lot of talking and communication and really good, honest chats. I wasn't introduced to my stepson now till quite far in when we knew it was something. And even then, I was just introduced as daddy's friend, you know, just just to take things slowly and and cautiously. But uh what was that like? It was good. I think the main thing that Johnti and I agreed for that was that he's the center of attention. He should feel like a special guy. So it's not really about Johnti and me. It's about us making together making him feel really special and just having a wonderful time. We went in the sea and we went on the pier and we had, you know, it was just a lovely day out. And it felt good. I had never thought that I would end up with somebody who already had a child and who was 13 years older than me as well. There's a big age gap. So that was another thing to navigate that I thought I would end up with a, I don't know, a businessman, the same age as me this time, and had a helicopter, and you know, but but no. But it really actually really proved to me that it really is about the person and not the material things. Yeah, the labels. Yeah. Yeah, not the labels, none of this my type on paper, you know. It's just it's about values, having similar values and a similar sense of humor all also helps, but values and honesty, I think. And I love being a step-mum. I love it.\n\nKate Daly 26:28\nWell, I was gonna say, how have you navigated that journey then? So tell us a little bit about that. So from a first meet to marrying and therefore becoming a stepparent, and what's what has that been like?\n\nJess Robinson 26:39\nNever been under any pressure to call me mum or or step mum or anything. There was a conversation early on when he, you know, I said, You can call me, you can call me Jess, you can say I'm your friend, you can you can call me whatever you like. And he decided on cheeky stepmom. So we've gone from that. It's worked really well, actually. It was it was funny to begin with. I was introduced to mum, and that was slightly awkward and weird, but actually, she texts me now, and I'm gonna drop him off early. Will he be in that sort of thing? And we just have a a back and forth, and it just feels really nice. And I'm not trying to be his mum either. I think that's really important. I do co-parent a bit. I mean, I'm there to do school pickups and dinners and and things like that. But the thing that I can do the best with him is, for example, tutor him with his English or help him with his music. Or the other day I helped him write a speech. And I love being able to do that. I love being able to be involved and be someone to turn to if he needs to talk, or just someone to hang out with one night and watch films and eat eat sweet, you know. It's lovely.\n\nKate Daly 28:00\nIt's like he's got an extra person, isn't it? That's what I think is so lovely about the whole step-parent culture is you've got your parents and then you've got some extra people who also want to. Cheerleader. I mean, who does need an extra cheerleader? That's that's just that's what is the magic of step-parenting. I think where it where it gets intense is where you're trying to replace roles and there's a power battle that becomes really tricky then. But I think if you can be the cheerleader for the child, then what an amazing role.\n\nJess Robinson 28:34\nThat's it. And I never knew whether I really wanted my own children or not. But this seems to have, if we're putting it into its very most minimal way of describing it, it's scratched an itch. But it's really given me so much. I love helping him. I love watching him develop. I love it when he's naughty and cheeky and being witty. And it it he's just brilliant. He's a really brilliant boy. And I love seeing his confidence grow as well as he grows into a really great young man. Yeah. He's awesome.\n\nKate Daly 29:09\nSo I'm gonna go back to that question then um that I asked you earlier.\n\nJess Robinson 29:14\nOh.\n\nKate Daly 29:14\nUm do all roads lead to here? Do you feel over the shame? Yes, I do. Actually. Would you have that relationship with your stepson and your husband if you hadn't come on the journey you've been on?\n\nJess Robinson 29:31\nNo, I absolutely.\n\nKate Daly 29:32\nI don't mean would you have met them? Let's assume you would have met them anyway, but would your relationships feel like this had you not had your previous experience?\n\nJess Robinson 29:39\nNo, I don't think so. And I think had I not had my previous experience, I probably wouldn't even have entertained a relationship with my husband. I wouldn't have probably not. I and that feels very that feels like don't don't let that pass you by. Don't don't do that.\n\nKate Daly 30:01\nBecause it's it's wonderful. So your your previous experience, the the road you've travelled up to that point and the shame that you felt and been able to overcome has got you to a point where you've been able to keep your eyes open to something that naturally you'd have had them closed to, then maybe. Yes, I think. I'm just, you know, I just find this whole thing fascinating. I don't hold on to a sense of shame and regret for very many things ever. I just regret just not rightly or wrongly, just not an emotion I'd personally hang on to or have. Because I don't think any of the good things that I've got now, I would have unless I'd traveled that road. And that's how I kind of maybe I just square being a really terrible person in previous life. I don't know. Who knows? But that's kind of how I look at it. And it it just strikes me that, you know, what you're describing now, your ability to make that connection as a step parent and to have the relationship you've got with somebody who you wouldn't in the in your sort of previous life trajectory have entertained, come into contact with, given a second thought to, just feels like it's given you a richness that you wouldn't otherwise have had.\n\nJess Robinson 31:18\nI wouldn't change it for anything. And yes, that's exactly right. That is exactly right. A richness that I wouldn't have had is such a fab way to put it. And I wouldn't change it for anything. It feels so lovely to be in such a little, we call ourselves a little pack without dog Brian. It feels, it feels like a very special little family. Yeah.\n\nKate Daly 31:41\nThat's such a lovely story, Jess. Really is lovely. In a minute, Jess, I'm gonna ask you to give us your sort of top tip for entering a new relationship post-separation. But just before I do, I just want to say if this episode has given you a bit of clarity or comfort or just a tip that's made things feel a little bit more manageable, make sure to follow the divorce podcast on your favourite podcast app. Each week we're here with expert advice and real support to help you through your separation one step at a time. So, final tips then, Jess. What's your biggest tip for somebody on the other side of the separation process who's thinking about dating again or starting a new relationship?\n\nJess Robinson 32:21\nKeep checking in with yourself. You don't want to close yourself off to new experiences, and maybe it's good to have a few practice dates and practice saying, no, that's not okay for me as well. No, I don't like that. That's quite empowering in itself. But yeah, keep checking in with yourself and maybe do some journaling. I always find, or I've found at the time as well, what went well always helps. Just three things that went well that day, even if the date was a disaster, even if it's just, you know, I got there on time, I felt that it wasn't right, and I listened to my feelings, you know, or something like that. One of the things that really stuck with me when I was just coming out of the relationship and so, so, so low. I texted a friend of mine who had been through a divorce and and I knew had a girlfriend, and I just said, I just feel like I'll never be happy again. I don't know how I'll ever be happy again. And he said, You will, I promise you, you will. And you could, I could not believe it at the time. I honestly couldn't. Things were so dark. I was so down in the weeds. But if this is happening to you, it's possible and you will be happy again. And you've just got to keep putting one foot in front of the other, just small steps, one day at a time, one hour at a time.\n\nKate Daly 33:47\nOh, that's amazing advice. And you know, we did a survey recently, and we know that nearly half, about 45% of men and women are dating again within a year. And if you're Gen Z, it's probably around 60%. So you can do it. People do get back out there, and getting back on the horse feels like it's a real kind of key to just, and like you say, it doesn't have to be the next big relationship, just getting a bit date aware and going on a few dates to see what it's like. That's what my co-founder always used to say to me, because I was a real procrastinator and I didn't date for ages. She's just like, it doesn't have to be the love of your life. You can just go on a few bad dates. That's not the end of the world. So I think if you just sort of think of it like that, just get on a few bad dates, you'll be okay.\n\nJess Robinson 34:29\nYeah, I nearly didn't go on, I nearly didn't go on a date with John T when he asked me. And my mum said, Oh, go, go and be treated nicely, go and be taken out for dinner. Why not? And so I did, and and I stood there in the went down to the ladies' loos, and I was pinching myself, literally pinching my arm to make sure that I was really there because it was so wonderful, and he was so nice and he so understood me. So it can happen, but take it slowly, and you don't have to call it anything until you're ready and pinch the label. Yeah, exactly.\n\nKate Daly 35:05\nYeah.\n\nJess Robinson 35:06\nYeah.\n\nKate Daly 35:06\nListen, that's all we've got time for today. I can't thank you enough for joining me. Where can people find out more information about you and what are you up to?\n\nJess Robinson 35:14\nThey could find me on my website, jessrobinson.co.uk, and I'm on Instagram and Facebook and all the other ones. I am currently touring and going to the Edinburgh Festival with my show, Elton Reimagined, and it's all Elton John songs reimagined through the voices and styles of some of my favorite pop divas. So we've got Britney Spears doing but Benny and the Jets, and we've got Amy Winehouse doing Tiny Dancer and Kate Bush doing goodbye, yellow big wood. And um it's really uplifting. It's a slice of joy. If you heard, I tell you what, if you hear me on the the divorce podcast and you need a bit of joy, then just get in touch and I'll give you a discount code if it's fantastic. Sounds brilliant. That's that's what we all need right now.\n\nKate Daly 36:06\nYeah, slice of joy, a slice of joy in Edinburgh. I cannot think of anything better. It sounds wonderful. So thank you. Don't forget for separation and co-parenting support, you can visit us at amicable.co.uk where you can find our resources or you can book a free advice consultation. You can find me on LinkedIn and Insta, and you can hear about new podcast episodes by subscribing for updates and visiting thedivorsepodcast.com, or you can find us on your favourite listening platform. We'd love to know how we can help for others, so please share any questions on divorce or separation and co-parenting with us. You can do that at hello at amicable.co.uk. And don't forget you can also join our subscription platform, Amicable Space, where you'll find our community forum. And that's a safe place to ask all sorts of questions as you go through divorce or separation or co-parenting. Members also get access to our free monthly QA webinar with Amicables divorce specialists. So look out for that. Thank you so much for joining me today, Jess. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. Thank you for being so open and candid. I'd love to thank you, everybody, for listening.","VideoLink":"https:\/\/thedivorcepodcast.buzzsprout.com\/182833\/episodes\/19613126-comedian-jess-robinson-on-finding-love-again-after-separation","Title":"Comedian Jess Robinson on finding love again after separation","EpisodeSlug":"jess-robinson-divorce-dating-blended-family","LastModifiedDate":"2026-08-12T09:47:48.000Z","CategorySlug":"life-after-divorce","Category":"Life after divorce","EpisodeUrl":"\/episode\/jess-robinson-divorce-dating-blended-family","CreatedOn":"2026-08-12","ReleaseDate":"2026-08-12T06:00:00.000Z","Content":"What happens when you finally stop ignoring your gut - and discover that everything you went through was leading you somewhere better?\n\nIn this episode, I'm joined by multi-award-winning comedy impressionist Jess Robinson to hear her honest and uplifting story of separation, starting over and finding unexpected happiness as a stepmum.\n\nIn this episode, Jess talks about:\n\n- What the end of her marriage looked like, and how she processed it\n- The shame she felt around her separation, and how she moved through it\n- Dating again, and how she met her husband\n- Building a blended family, and what the stepmum role really means to her\n- Why going through hard times can lead you exactly where you're meant to be\n\nThis episode is for anyone who's been through a separation and is wondering what comes next - especially if you're navigating new relationships or a blended family.\n\n_\u26a0\ufe0f This episode contains some adult themes so please take care while listening_\n\nIf this episode resonated with you, follow The Divorce Podcast for honest, expert support whenever you need it.\n\n## Meet Jess Robinson\n\n[Jess Robinson](https:\/\/www.jessrobinson.co.uk\/) is a multi-award-winning comedy impressionist and classically trained singer recognised as the UK's pre-eminent female impressionist. A household name in comedy and impressions since her viral Britain's Got Talent semi-final in 2017, she has since starred as lead voice artist on Spitting Image, appeared regularly on Channel 4's The Last Leg and BBC's Dead Ringers, and performed to sell-out crowds at iconic venues including the London Palladium and the Royal Albert Hall. She is also an experienced voice artist, lending her talents to Aardman, DreamWorks, Netflix and Disney, and hosted the British Podcast Award-winning show Stars In Your Ears.\n\nYou can [learn more about Jess on her website](https:\/\/www.jessrobinson.co.uk\/), and follow her [on Instagram](https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/jessrobinsonofficial\/) and [Facebook](https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/jessrobinsonofficial) to stay up to date. You can also catch her show, ['Elton Reimagined'](https:\/\/www.jessrobinson.co.uk\/live-shows\/), in Edinburgh this August - [book your tickets today](https:\/\/assemblyfestival.com\/whats-on\/jess-robinson-elton-reimagined).\n\n## More divorce resources\n\n### **Need expert help right now?**\n\nBook a [free 15-minute consultation](https:\/\/meetings.amicable.io\/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep207_jess_robinson&utm_content=episode_description) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation.\n\n### **Want ongoing support as you rebuild after separation?**\n\nJoin [amicable space](https:\/\/amicable.space\/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep207_jess_robinson&utm_content=episode_description) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars and articles on emotional wellbeing and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https:\/\/amicable.space\/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep207_jess_robinson&utm_content=episode_description).\n\nKate\u2019s book [amicable divorce](https:\/\/amicable.io\/amicable-divorce-book?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep207_jess_robinson&utm_content=episode_description) includes dedicated chapters on emotional readiness and timing, navigating separation with kindness and rebuilding your identity and moving forward with confidence. [Find it on Amazon](https:\/\/www.amazon.co.uk\/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting\/dp\/180522610X) today.\n\n### **Got a question for a future episode?**\n\nShare your thoughts at [press@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/amicable_world\/).\n","ApplePodcasts":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/gb\/podcast\/comedian-jess-robinson-on-finding-love-again-after\/id1403271644?i=1000782892157","CategoryUrl":"\/category\/life-after-divorce","Featured":true,"YoutubeMusic":"https:\/\/music.youtube.com\/watch?v=slVo7lNISFo&si=Av3D8UUt4cCp6zLG","EpisodeNumber":207,"id":"rec3Y1LpiUBu4MHBo"}]